Refusal to discuss formula feeding at parentcraft class

[obeliaboo]

AIBU? Ready for the fire!
I've been told that in order for me to have a tour of my chosen hospital's delivery suite, that i need to attend 'parentcraft' classes.
Yesterday was exclusively about breastfeeding, fair enough, didnt know that of course until we got there.
So, as the midwife goes on about breastfeeding and support, I enquire what is the support for those who fall into small percentage of mums who cannot breastfeed. Simple question.
"What do you mean?".
I had to ask again, and put it across that i intend to breastfeed, but what if i cant, what if my milk doesn't come in. It happens, it happened to my eldest sister, its nothing to be ashamed of so whats the harm in asking and what is the support in that situation.
"We don't discuss artificial feeding".
Seriously?? I understand the necessity to promote breastfeeding is a priority for the NHS, because it seriously needs normalising, but to just object to even touching on the subject of formula feeding really riled me. I felt like i was at a propaganda session! She instead continued to address breastfeeding and a specific brand of electric breast bump at a specifc well known retailer.
Is this what the NHS supports? Big business's and there overpriced products (the specific one mentioned was over £100, I am not in a position to be able to afford something like that for a start), under the guise that 'breast is best', its the best start for baby - and insinuating that formula is the devil when for some poor souls, it is the only option?
AIBU for finding this absolutely snotty and condescending? There are mums out there who are underconfident, or genuinely don't lactate, mums who have gone through breastcancer and mastectomies etc, so why are these midwives refusing to even consider discussing both options.
Why make it militant and harder for those who simply can't, to speak up without feeling ashamed?
FYI this is the 3rd midwife i've had ranting at me over this.

Hey loyse it's just an estimate but they base it on savings made from having fewer incidences of gastro enteritis and chest infections that have been recognised as being higher in formula fed babies. Plus they estimated the cases of breast cancer would reduce it's all predictions but quite interesting and more info on the NHS website.

Spot on livingzuid.

Support is needed for both breast and bottle feeding.
I have to say,my hospital were fine with me bottle feeding. They never pushed breast feeding on me.
I felt really lost when she wouldn't take the bottle, no one mentions different teats, or how to hold them.
I've never encountered any disgust at the way I feed my baby, maybe I just haven't noticed?!

There was a thread in the feeding section about a month ago entitled
"why breast feeding is wonderful" or something like that I read it and felt really confused and sad by some of the comments.
"my baby gets all excited when I get my boob out" yes, so does my baby when I say milk time. "my baby gives me a big smile when she comes off the boob" yes, so does mine when she's finished her bottle.

The one that really got to me was someone saying they don't know how mothers who ff comfort there children, as they offer the boob as comfort. This made me really sad. I'm a mum who ff and I comfort my child like any mum would with love and cuddles. Do people really think less of me as a mother because I feed her with a bottle and doubt my skills to love and look after her?

Anyway, op, yanbu.

Livingzuid, you have just given me flashbacks to spending every spare penny we had on different bottle types. Dc2 needed to be switched to ff at 3 months. He wouldn't take a bottle and finally it was trying a different milk that saved us.

As someone who bf dc1 with ease, it was a real shock to the system becoming a formula feeder. If I hadn't been given support to ff I think I could have become quite ill and ds would have continued to fail to thrive.

I think you should put a complaint in op.

I thought gastroenteritis in ff babies was mainly caused by poor hygiene though? Rather than the formula itself. So if they supported ff and how to sterilise properly that would save the NHS money too surely?

My shittest bit of bf 'support' (and its a tough competition) was when the bf support lady came to see me in hospital
BF Support: what borough do you live in?
Me: borough A
BF Support: oh I can't help you then, we only support Borough B

obeliaboo. Yes. I was one if those Mothers. Three times.

As I said, BF counsellors don't just help women to BF, they can help women work through the emotions or problems they have with regard to not being able to BF. Hence the term 'counsellor'.

I'm not sure what exactly you think a midwife could say, during a brief class, that would help women overcome these feelings? Particularly as they probably can't even imagine feeling them yet. That said, it does seem like the midwife you mention in your OP did deal with things poorly, but IME, once your baby is born, most healthcare professionals have little BF knowledge of any practical use and FF is heavily pushed.

badfury and tinymonkey I get quite ranty about it as it is all about personal choice at the end of the day, but I do hate the demonising of formula. My baby is healthy and happy and if I had come off my medication to feed her chances are both her and I would be very much worse for wear. If the doctors thought it would have been better for her to bf as formula is so awful they would have told me. But they didn't. So it is hardly as bad as it is made out. We are fortunate in Europe to have that option.

mrspeabody I feel your pain. It was dh who questioned why we were trying to persevere with a bottle she just didn't want!

DD is nine months now and my strength of feeling of what I went through is still as strong as ever. Not from the doctors or nurses, mind, just the sadness that I couldn't bf. Agree completely with a pp that it is something you take a long time to get over. No mother should go through that guilt no matter the choice she makes on how to feed her child.

I went to our local parentcraft bf talk.

The midwife was so ignorant and uneducated I got up and left. And I'm neither pro nor anti bf, horses for courses etc.

My breaking point was when she said:
"I used to work on the neonatal wRd and the premature babies who were formula fed usually died, if only their mothers could have breastfed them"

Great, I'm sure anyone with a preemie in neonatal care really needs another stick to beat themselves with.

That is totally the opposite to my experience. I knew I didn't want to BF and was totally supported by my local midwife, the parentcraft midwives, my consultant and the hospital midwives. They all made sure that they said breast was best but I was never made to feel bad.

windyourbobbin up- hygiene plays a part, but their are other factors that make ff babies more at risk to gastro intestinal problems. Formula causes damage to gut flora, high iron levels in formula can allow pathogens to flourish.

Also the immunological properties of breastmilk actually kill bacteria, epithelial cells protect the gut wall.

I got my cold water steriliser off Freecycle and when I came home after having twins, I didn't have a fucking magoo about how to prepare a bottle. I hadn't bought formula either.

But not one person ever refused to discuss bottle feeding with me, it was my HV that showed me what to do and at every midwife appt they would always let me know there was support for me whichever way I fed my babies.

Sounds like the problem is Parentcraft!

three that is awful.

On bad bf advice, one friend had her boobs actually beaten by the mw as she was recovering from a 30 hour labour and c section. Her husband had to shout to get the woman to leave the room. It can be so crap both ways.

threefrazzled it was extremely wrong of her to say that, but breastmilk is particularly beneficial for premature babies, particularly regarding NEC. Having had extremely premature babies, who ultimately died, I am very glad I knew that. I couldn't do sod all for them, but I was beyond determined they would get my milk if at all possible.

Three that is terrible. As a preemie mum myself that STILL feels emotional that I couldn't bf, I'm glad I didn't get that comment

I'd had a double mastectomy in my 20s, long before getting pg, so I knew I wasn't going to be able to BF.

I read the packet, I read the online advice, the WHO guidelines, a load on MN and I still found the making up a bottle instructions confusing and overwhelming in the first few weeks after having DS. I had PRACTICED making bottles and am generally practical person.

I had a similar experience at parentcraft classes. My DP was almost in tears when we left because he thought our child was "likely to have health problems" due to having to be FF. I had to reassure him that we were doing the best we could and in all likelihood there wouldn't be any health problems.

I should say that in all the pre and post natal care, this was the only point I had a problem.

I don't care if it's a choice or not, or how or what anyone else feeds their kids. I do know that there are groups and support for helping BF and on the other side even finding out guidance on making formula safely out of the house is incredibly difficult.

I also know that the most important thing to a new parent in those first weeks and months is making sure their newborn DC is fed, so it's incredibly stressful and any extra support for any parents would do more good than harm.
(A leaflet in my parentcraft class with safe formula techniques would not have changed BF rates in my house, at least!)

*practised making bottles

If I'm going to write a word in caps I should probably spell it right

Thanks Nancy. I think I will avoid reading that. It's an emotive subject for me and I don't need reminding that only did I fail my baby but if I die of breast cancer that's my fault as well!

YANBU
I think FFers do need support. I needed support trying to get any milk at all down my prem baby who lost lots of weight. No support was forthcoming. I asked for help with possible expressing- I rang the infant feeding person at the hospital- no support forthcoming.
I needed support dealing with my feelings of guilt (why? He's fine!) and failure over having to FF.
No support was forthcoming.
The NHS and its breast is best stuff failed me and failed my premature baby.
I am still very angry about it all tbh. DS will be an only and is now 2.9, very tall strong, healthy, bright- just amazing really- so I should be over it. Formula was perfectly fine for him, (and me and DH). I think it's the fact that health professionals didn't help, and made out like FFing was in some way bad that makes me do angry. We deserved some support :(

Our local hospital holds feeding sessions, either option is supported and welcomed within them.

I've formula fed and breast fed and did need guidance for both.

I agree that breastfeeding needs to be normalised, promoted and does require extra support but a lesson on basic guidelines for sterilisation and making up feeds in keeping with current advice is just as useful to the mother and baby.

I certainly didn't know that water had to be at a certain temperature to kill the bacteria present in powdered formula.

The comments about formula feeding mums not needing support I am assuming is coming from those who have been fortunate enough to solely breastfeed?? I did with my first - but my second had some problems and ended up on medicated formula. The logistics of sorting bottle feeding when you are sleep deprived, and feeling very emotional about the world condemning you to have failed as a mother because you're bottle feeding, you do need a bit if very practical logistical support. All mothers should be entitled to support no matter how they choose to feed - the lack of support for formala feeding is just wrong. Why should those babies not be supported to? Not supporting mum is basically not supporting baby.

Were you at the Whittington by any chance Windthebobbinup? I know the bf support woman was only allowed to help women with an Islington postcode, so if you were from Haringey tough luck basically.

I'll also be avoiding that report Nancy given that my sister died from bc and my mother has just had it as well .

Yes Tiny although to be fair to her my postcode start fell into both boroughs. Bit crap though to have 2 levels of support on the same ward!

I intended to breastfeed then had a shock when my little one just couldn't do it. After many days of waiting to see a breastfeeding counsellor and trying all sorts we reluctantly realised we'd have to bottle feed. We then realised we didn't have a clue how long bottles stayed sterile for once they'd been sterilised etc. It would have been so helpful to have some knowledge of this. Because of all the guilt tripping on breastfeeding, I put myself through 8 months of expressing until I ran dry and even then I felt like such a failure.
I now know that I couldn't have fed her no matter how hard I tried due to a medical problem that has since came to light, she simply just didn't have the strength. I was so relieved when I managed to successfully breastfeed my second child for 2 years. I the realised I had nothing to feel guilty about but it really annoys me all this NHS propaganda.

FF doesn't necessarily need training although tips on sterilising or safe storage would be useful.
BF absolutely necessitates human support. It's not something you can read off the internet easily.

YANBU for being appalled at the sneering FF but YABU about wanting it to be included in the training

So sorry about your experience TinyMonkey and Loise. I didn't mean to upset either of you. I think where women are let down is the disconnect between the guidelines and real womens' emotions. It's a really big subject. Again very sorry to have upset you.

guen, why is it unreasonable to want to be in possession of all the facts? Changing the terminology from needing training to useful tips doesn't change the ops problem. She wasn't given any training or tips.