Refusal to discuss formula feeding at parentcraft class

[obeliaboo]

AIBU? Ready for the fire!
I've been told that in order for me to have a tour of my chosen hospital's delivery suite, that i need to attend 'parentcraft' classes.
Yesterday was exclusively about breastfeeding, fair enough, didnt know that of course until we got there.
So, as the midwife goes on about breastfeeding and support, I enquire what is the support for those who fall into small percentage of mums who cannot breastfeed. Simple question.
"What do you mean?".
I had to ask again, and put it across that i intend to breastfeed, but what if i cant, what if my milk doesn't come in. It happens, it happened to my eldest sister, its nothing to be ashamed of so whats the harm in asking and what is the support in that situation.
"We don't discuss artificial feeding".
Seriously?? I understand the necessity to promote breastfeeding is a priority for the NHS, because it seriously needs normalising, but to just object to even touching on the subject of formula feeding really riled me. I felt like i was at a propaganda session! She instead continued to address breastfeeding and a specific brand of electric breast bump at a specifc well known retailer.
Is this what the NHS supports? Big business's and there overpriced products (the specific one mentioned was over £100, I am not in a position to be able to afford something like that for a start), under the guise that 'breast is best', its the best start for baby - and insinuating that formula is the devil when for some poor souls, it is the only option?
AIBU for finding this absolutely snotty and condescending? There are mums out there who are underconfident, or genuinely don't lactate, mums who have gone through breastcancer and mastectomies etc, so why are these midwives refusing to even consider discussing both options.
Why make it militant and harder for those who simply can't, to speak up without feeling ashamed?
FYI this is the 3rd midwife i've had ranting at me over this.

birobenny Yes. Although not regularly. Dc1 bf exclusively. Dc2 mostly bf with a regular bottle of expressed or formula. Dc3 ff initially as my milk took a while to come in. Now mostly bf, with the occasional bottle.

Am looking at a carton of Aptamil 1. Clear, step by step instructions.

I was determined to breastfeed, so determined in fact that when it all went wrong it very nearly sent me into post natal depression and two years later I was still crying about it when talking about it with friends etc. now four years on I'm more philosophical about it but still going to try again with this baby due in a month or so. I agree with you OP, it doesn't work for everyone, even if they really want it to and emotional support in those instances is very important.

I definitely think there isn't enough support for mums who FF. I wanted to breastfeed but was unable to do so which was humiliating enough & then had to face every bloody health visitor, doctor, midwife asking me why I've chosen FF when "breast is best". It made me feel completely selfish & useless when I couldn't have breastfed if I wanted to, the milk just wouldn't come & my son was upset at my trying as he was hungry.

I've also had SO many tuts & dirty looks whilst feeding my son his bottle in public from breastfeeding mums. There really does need to be more of a social acceptance to FF especially towards those that have no choice, you are feeding a child & that method should be respected just as breastfeeding is.

Phew, felt good to finally let that out!

Op I had the same issues when I had dd. I wanted to be able to have an open and frank discussion on the subject and basically the midwife leading my class stated that if I intended to ff then why was I even bothering to have a baby! my hv went one better when dd was 4 weeks old and had gone from 7lb1 to just shy of 9lb and told me that I was obviously force feeding her, she was overweight and needed to be put on a strict diet and threatened me with a SS referral for child abuse. as someone who suffers from extreme anxiety and was on the at risk watch list with my community midwife and the hv who visited while I was pregnant for PND it was devastating. I fretted although my pregnancy about breastfeeding and what ifs and decided that I would give it a try but have everything available to ff just in case.

I tried to bf, dd took one look at books and spat out my nipped and refused to go near it. I asked endlessly for help and the hca gave me a bottle and told me to give her that cos people were trying to sleep

imo there is sod all genuine support for either option and to those morons saying well the instructions are on the box well they are for a home tattoo kit but it doesn't mean you cam set up shop just cos you have read them

I recieved a leaflet about formula feeding from one of the big brands (can't remember which one) which said to use cooled boiled water to make up the bottles. According to what I've read on here the water should be 70 degrees+ to kill germs. So I think YANBU, there should be support for all mothers, not just those who can/choose to BF.

I don't agree that you don't need support to ff - if that is not what you'd planned to do.

When dS was born I made no milk for 7 days - by which point he'd lost 23% of his birth weight and we were still in hospital. I was sobbing "but breastfeeding is so good for babies..." as the paediatrician took him to SCBU. The hospital had given me amazing support, and LLL counsellor had come to visit several times, but - no milk, starving baby. The SCBU mw persuaded me to let her give ds a bottle, and told me about her own 2-month prem ff daughter. She wanted to to give him his first bottle in case he refused - I don't think I had the emotional resilience to deal with that by that stage. DS was ff from then on - and I cried about it for weeks.

Many women like to talk about how to combine bf and ff, or intend to bf for a short time only. They should have their questions answered honestly!

Recombmending a specific breast pump sounds more undermining to bf than explaining that, say, if you are formula feeding a newborn the baby might feed little and often rather than the set pattern recommended by the instructions on the box. turning discussion of ff into a taboo does no one any favours

They ARE allowed to talk about it!

Yanbu at all, they should cover difficulties breasfeeding, and the problems that a woman may encounter, and safe formula preparation. Not all women will be able to read, or understand the instructions on the formula tins. Midwives should be promoting safe formula preparation and practice.

This is the type of attitudes which make women feel awful not being able to breastfeed, of course they should cover the alternatives in Parentcraft classes, and expressing and mix feeding too.

It was a difficult choice (at an emotional time anyway!) to change DD to formula at 9 days old for reasons I'll keep to myself, but once made I was happy enough with our decision - afterall at least we were lucky enough to have a choice unlike some. I then had a call from a breastfeeding support worker from the hospital at about 2 weeks, and when I told her we had switched over she said "oh well - sure at least there are other good decisions you can make for your baby" I'm quite happy with the logistics of ff, and dont particularly feel I need any support as such, but talk about kicking someone when theyre down! OP, you can get support for ff from the various milk companies whom you can call for advice. Or your GP if needed x

It was a difficult choice (at an emotional time anyway!) to change DD to formula at 9 days old for reasons I'll keep to myself, but once made I was happy enough with our decision - afterall at least we were lucky enough to have a choice unlike some. I then had a call from a breastfeeding support worker from the hospital at about 2 weeks, and when I told her we had switched over she said "oh well - sure at least there are other good decisions you can make for your baby" I'm quite happy with the logistics of ff, and dont particularly feel I need any support as such, but talk about kicking someone when theyre down! OP, you can get support for ff from the various milk companies whom you can call for advice. Or your GP if needed x

Nhs trusts should be striving for UNICEF baby friendly accreditation and part of their stipulation is no group instruction about formula feeding. A midwife or health visitor has a responsibility to help you feed your baby safely whichever way you chose. Whilst the instructions are there on the packet signora not everyone has the literacy levels to follow them, and some may not understand the implications of not following the instructions for sterilisation or preparation carefully.
Sadly the push for unicef accreditation means some hcps are wary of going into too much detail regarding formula, and plus you get a handful of rather militant pro breastfeeding people who sadly cause some to feel as you have obelia

Never mind making the formula, the bit that will not be obvious to new parents is how to hold a baby to give a bottle. With a new born it feels like you need three hands to begin with.

Breast feeding difficulties happen its fact, support is needed evenly i feel - im so disappointed at those posting here to 'read the label' etc.
Post natal depression should be ignored because you're ff then i assume, when the pnd could easily be attributed to the fact that you cant breastfeed and thus see yourself as a failure, as midwives, consultants etc tell you that 'breast is best' and wear you down further... honestly, have some empathy for new mums who are at there wits end.
I really feel there needs to be support for those mums. I could be that mum, anyone could really and i dont see why there should be a ban on the discussion at a group meeting.

I am seriously baffled about people making others feel like failures. It's everywhere! BF V FF, WOHM V SAHM
why do people care so much about other people's choices!

As far I recall I didn't have any negative comments and neither did my friends. It was general chit chat, try to think of something to say conversations. ' are you BF or bottle?' '( answer)' 'Oh, nice' ( really not interested what other people do)

When did people get so judgey and stick their beak into things?

Post natally, inu experience any bf problems are met with the suggestion to give formula. Midwives are too understaffed and harassed to do anything other than throw formula at a crying baby.

People are woefully uninformed where breastfeeding is concerned. I'd say a more useful approach would be to cover both side by side- point out bf babies feed all the time, have runnier poo, night feed longer, have different growth patterns to bottle fed babies, and why. So people know bf don't behave the same as bottle.

And they should cover Rusks/rice in bottles is not a good thing! I still come across people who do this, it's not uncommon.

If you want to breastfeed and can't, presumably you would be approaching BF support networks at the outset to establish the nature of the problem. So emotional support is there.

If you want to FF from the outset, then what emotional support is needed? I agree that there should be a bit more available info on practicalities though - particularly safe and hygienic prep and storage.

I do think the extent to which FF discussion is 'banned' is a bit over zealous. It feels a bit disproportionate to the actual advantages.

Support is needed for all new mums regardless of how they feed their babies. And while instructions for making up formula are on the packet when I switched DS over at 3 days old due to a total failure to latch on, I had a million questions and no one to ask because no one in the hospital could discuss not BF with me.

I wish I had known more about how to do mix feeding or to have kept my milk in until DS may have been able to try again but no advice there either. New mums of all kinds are vulnerable and it's just ridiculous that options other than total BF can't even be discussed by the NHS.

There is no support, I was told they aren't allowed to support you. I had a premature baby, my milk didn't come in, he lost loads of weight and obviously was small to start with. After a week in hospital a nice midwife said there was a premature baby formula I could top up with. Looking back I was starving my preemie because they weren't allowed to suggest another method!

And for those that say making formula is easy, it is BUT I hear many cases of sick babies from poor sterilisation and hygiene, making formula incorrectly and so on. Some even wean very early or move onto stage 2 formula, use less scoops to save money

I'm only 7 weeks pregnant so I've not had any of these sessions yet but they are worrying me sick already as I remember a lot of it from my last pregnancy. I am planning on formula feeding and I don't think my mind will be changed on that, but I know I won't be allowed to just make that decision for myself without people trying to convince me otherwise. I hate that some people make you feel like a second rate mother for not breast feeding and it's a shame as it just makes what is already a very difficult time more difficult.

Don't get me wrong I know breast is best, I know we cannot promote FF due to laws etc but if someone has all the information and then makes that decision it should be accepted and yes there should be support as many people dont know how to make up bottles or store them correctly as guidelines change.

I detest the term "artificial feeding". You are giving your baby what she/he needs - bottle or breast.

I have fed my babies using both methods without much support from anyone. Women should be given support, regardless of how they feed their babies. IMO, MW getting all ranty about a simple FF question doesn't help and being told that cannot have a tour of your chosen hospital UNLESS you attend a parent craft class would piss me off as well!

YANBU - like others on this thread, I was determined to breastfeed. I was so determined that I carried on through multiple bouts of mastitis, and was STILL trying when I was hospitalised for an abcess, meaning I was separated from my baby and husband for a week when my DS was still tiny. At the prenatal classes I attended the idea that there could be complications with breastfeeding just wasn't even countenanced. We were told there wouldn't be any problems if we were 'doing it properly'. Total bollocks, of course. I was completely clueless about mastitis had absolutely no idea at all that I might develop an abcess. It's a fucking disgrace that women are left ignorant about what to do when bf isn't working - including how to ff. thank god I had an amazing doctor who helped me cope with the emotional fallout. When midwives, hvs and others refuse to even discuss ff it only contributes to the despair most mums feel when they can't feed their child in the 'approved' fashion.

YANBU
We tried BF and for a whole raft of reasons decided to FF after a couple of weeks.
However I wasn't told how to sterilise properly and DD got oral thrush which was nasty to get rid of.

Yanbu. It is really daft that they refuse to talk about formula feeding. Did they also refuse to talk about cesarean as a vaginal birth is better for baby?

Those people who say that formula feeding is easy and you don't need any support/advice as you just get a bottle and give it to the baby surely that's what you do when you breastfeed, show baby boob, sit back and drink tea whilst watching daytime tv. I'd say breastfeeding is less complicated as it's always the right temperature, sterile, the right consistency and you can't give too much. I actually have no idea how much milk a baby should actually have.

I can tell you what happens when your milk doesn't come in, first time I persisted for days while my child screamed with hunger. I was told it was normal but they wrote in my notes 'baby hungry and distressed'. I was offered minimal breastfeeding support, people popped in intermittently, tried to get him to latch on, failed then got annoyed and left me to it. When I gave up three days in I was shown the kitchen and told to get on with it.

Time two I went in prepared, I spoke to my midwife and doctor who just said I didn't have enough help last time (no shit) and it would be fine this time. Of course it wasn't and when I had the same problems I asked for help, to see the lactation consultant and for a breast pump. Refused on all three. When I said in that case I wanted to bottle feed him I was met with a remark about how I wasn't willing to try and a comment in my notes about how I had not commitment to breastfeeding.

So in short if your milk doesn't come in and you can't breastfeed you will be treated like shit. You be considered lazy and selfish and if you simply tried a bit harder you could magic that milk up somehow. I had to have c-sections as well both time so I really was considered a lazy waste of space and treated as such, thank god I wont be having any more children.

Hopefully you will have a better experience and fingers crossed you will be able to breastfeed. I hate the way breastfeeding is encouraged at the moment, I think it should be encouraged but not at the detriment of mothers who can't or choose not to. I think every woman should have support rather than labeling a group as failures and treating them as such.

this attitude is the reason I never attended antenatal classes, don't attend baby groups or classes.

I'm a formula feeding mother was from the start, was slung out of hospital after 3hours with a new born baby (my first) and told all will be fine.

I knew how to make the bottle up that bit was easy, however holding the baby comfortably to feed was another self learning curve, also DS wouldn't take the box advised 3oz and had nobody to ask of this was ok, everyone refused to talk about it, so I just fed him whatever he would take and prayed he would gain weight. I went to one baby rhyme time, got a dressing down by a group of militant breast feeders. Never returned.