Refusal to discuss formula feeding at parentcraft class

[obeliaboo]

AIBU? Ready for the fire!
I've been told that in order for me to have a tour of my chosen hospital's delivery suite, that i need to attend 'parentcraft' classes.
Yesterday was exclusively about breastfeeding, fair enough, didnt know that of course until we got there.
So, as the midwife goes on about breastfeeding and support, I enquire what is the support for those who fall into small percentage of mums who cannot breastfeed. Simple question.
"What do you mean?".
I had to ask again, and put it across that i intend to breastfeed, but what if i cant, what if my milk doesn't come in. It happens, it happened to my eldest sister, its nothing to be ashamed of so whats the harm in asking and what is the support in that situation.
"We don't discuss artificial feeding".
Seriously?? I understand the necessity to promote breastfeeding is a priority for the NHS, because it seriously needs normalising, but to just object to even touching on the subject of formula feeding really riled me. I felt like i was at a propaganda session! She instead continued to address breastfeeding and a specific brand of electric breast bump at a specifc well known retailer.
Is this what the NHS supports? Big business's and there overpriced products (the specific one mentioned was over £100, I am not in a position to be able to afford something like that for a start), under the guise that 'breast is best', its the best start for baby - and insinuating that formula is the devil when for some poor souls, it is the only option?
AIBU for finding this absolutely snotty and condescending? There are mums out there who are underconfident, or genuinely don't lactate, mums who have gone through breastcancer and mastectomies etc, so why are these midwives refusing to even consider discussing both options.
Why make it militant and harder for those who simply can't, to speak up without feeling ashamed?
FYI this is the 3rd midwife i've had ranting at me over this.

Feeding information should be balanced.

Ds1 had formula in hospital as his blood sugars were low, he was exhausted, and my milk was slow to come in following a difficult birth. We did go on to establish a positive breastfeeding experience for over a year, but that formula was helpful in getting through those first days, and it wasn't a one way either - or situation.

Honest information about feeding babies would assist more mothers to make guilt-free decisions for the situation that they and their babies are in.
Sometimes a little use of formula can support a mother with breast feeding in the big picture.

I have not read the thread, but I think that women need to/ choose to formula feed do need support. Every year a small number of babies in the UK are hospitalised with gastroenteritis because of incorrectly prepared formula. It is important tha parents know how to prepare formula in a safe fashion. in reality most babies have dome formula at some point in their first year of life.

YANBU - surely "parentcraft" classes should cover all aspects of parenting. Many babies are FF for lots of different reasons and it's perfectly reasonable to expect advice on it in this kind of setting. Promoting BF surely means having advice and guidance ready for those who want it and dispelling myths. It doesn't mean making those who FF feel like shit

Sigh. It's not just about tips. Or training. Which actually would also be very helpful. It's also the emotional support as a pp said. And some acknowledgment that whatever choice a woman makes she should be supported with it in a helpful and courteous manner. I think that applies to all types of feeding.

As well as how to successfully establish ff, there is a bewildering amount of paraphernalia for formula, not to mention confusing on making and storing formula. It's very difficult to know which is best when you are a new parent. Also debunking some myths around which formula is 'best' (fgs they all have to meet the same standard) - would also have been great. Where I live one particular brand always sells out and they limit purchases to one carton a day per family.

livin the formula isle first time is mind blowing, me and dp spent an hour calling out the ingredients and the percentages of each formula in Tesco to basically discover, there's fuck all difference

Then there's the slow flow. medium flow, vari flow bottles anti colic

stay down formula, comfort formula.

Getting advice on how to introduce a new formula because the old one has bungled your baby up is like pulling teeth too!

sorry posted too son.

..I completely agree with you, it's far more than here's some milk in a bottle, crack on.

Well said Living. Support is key.

Just as an aside, I would love to see NICE guidelines on infant feeding - proper, evidence-based, graded recommendations.

We know breastmilk is better, but how much better?

Someone up thread mentioned about breast cancer. BF is only protective for breast cancer if BF exclusively for over a year.

We really need evidence about all the claims made about BF.

Thanks to the 'Tit police' and their complete lack of emotional support, I gave up on trying to breast feed and ended up giving DS formula. I am so glad I am not having any more children because the thought of having to face to Gestapo again fills me with dread.

I know that breast is best, but the way some of the midwives and HV's go about their advice is dreadful.

Totally agree with you op.

There should be a lot more information about formula feeding. Anyone who thinks it is as easy as just following the instructions on the tin clearly hasn't seen any of the regular and numerous posts on here and other forums asking for advice when it comes to sterilising bottles / feeding amounts / bottles and teats etc.

I formula fed both my dc and second time round even I had a few questions I needed to ask that I couldn't find the information anywhere.

I do find it a bit hypocritical of the nhs to "promote" breastfeeding over formula based somewhat on the supposed health risks of formula feeding when a lot of the issues with safely preparing formula could be avoided if they just talked about it more and gave new parents proper advice about formula feeding!

It's utter bollocks op.

Parent craft classes should cover all aspects of parenthood and ff is just as valid as bf.

The choice is the mothers and hers alone.

And if the mum really wanted to bf and can't she needs lots of support full stop.

I am amazed that they could prevent you from looking around the delivery suite without attending parent craft classes. Most people don't bother past pfb do they?

By dc4 I certainly wouldn't have had time for parent craft classes but would want to look around the unit as had a big gap between baby 2 and 4.

Ridiculous.

Exactly Fairylea

I remember nearly been thrown out of a "parentcraft" class years ago when I challenged the midwife who stated there were NO advantages to formula feeding by saying "someone else could help with the feeding".

I chose to ff both of mine. I might as well have told the health professionals I was going to shake them three times a day and feed them on salt.

I remember my HV did a session on FF - she said she wasn't meant to talk about it but that that was ridiculous as we needed to know what to do/what it involved. It is not common sense for everyone. You need to know what sterilising equipment you need, how to use it, the importance of washing well. How to make up and store feeds. What bottles and teats there are and how to use them. What the different formulas are and the differences between them... It did give me a real sense of the ongoing faff involved in ff as opposed to established bf. It also came in useful after my dd developed breast refusal due to the incredibly pushy midwives at the hospital constantly pushing her onto my boob. She was fed EBM for a couple of months but much as we tried we could never get passed the Breast refusal.

I do wonder to what extent the higher percentage of tummy upsets in ff babies is down to poor sterilisation, storage and mixing of feeds and mums putting extra scoops or rusk in to try and fill up their babies because they has never been given proper advise.

My dd is 16 yrs now and when I went to the parent classes all those years ago it was the same. OP YADDNBU. How ridiculous that they still don't want to talk about ff

I think just directing people to read the packaging is a ridiculous over simplification. There are a confusing number of bottles, tops, brands and equipment out there. Not to mention safe storage issues.

I was adamant I would bf. The bf message was heavily promoted and I took it all on board.

I can clearly remember when that plan finally came came to an upsetting and abrupt close late one evening. Dh rushed out to get whatever he could so that we could begin to ff. Dd was screaming all the time and losing a lot of weight. I was terribly unhappy and felt a complete failure. We had no idea what we were looking for in terms of sterilisation equipment or how to start.

I did feel quite annoyed and unsupported that in all the 'classes' we went to they couldn't or wouldn't prepare those of us who might need to know about ff. Emotionally I was all over the place because the only message I'd ever had was that bf was really the only option that was up for discussion.

The thought that this still could happen now to others makes me very .

I fully intended to bf DD and had done 0 research into ff.

When I emerged from hospital 10 days later with a disabled DD who wouldn't b feed I was knackered, emotional and clueless about ff.

DH got a steriliser and was in charge of sterilising bottles and we used those ready made cartons for the first few days as I was not even up to reading the back of the carton and making sense of it.

I recall DH asking for advice re formula from midwife on our first morning home and her being unable to help.

I pumped (DH hired a top grade medela pump), had numerous midwives try to assist on the ward and went to every bf support talk at the hospital.

DD had a traumatic birth and been tube fed. I was traumatised and knackered - DD's disability had been missed on my scans so her birth was a huge shock. I do sometimes wonder if my inability to breastfeed was natures way of dealing with disabled babies as pre formula she would have died.

A kindly midwife said to me about day 9 just feed her ff so you can go home.

ffs breast is best isn't propaganda. The fact that the natural way to feed a a baby needs advertising is sad.

Fwiw I understand that not all women are able to Bf, put as pp have said, what about FF needs discussing???

What a sad story Dixie. Ridiculous that midwives feel they can't discuss or support a parent who for whatever reason wants to FF. It feels really wrong and I wonder how we got to this?

I recall a case I was involved in as a trainee solicitor where a newborn baby boy was removed from mum. Mum was Irish with no family support here and illiterate. She was making bottles up wrong, baby was removed xmas eve. She had 4 or 5 older children too. Not the only reason of course many family issues but it was in all the social services docs. That was in a deprived area almost 20 years ago. Stayed with me. At a guess I'd say none of the parents I came into contact with when I did childcare law could have easily read the formula carton.

The instructions on the side of a box of formula are rubbish. The instructions only include the "waiting 30 min for the kettle to cool the right amount" method, which is completely impractical with a baby not yet in a routine. I think that's part of the reason that I have seen so many parents mixing formula with room temperature water - alternative, safer methods aren't given.

I'm on my second FF baby. According to the formula box, my DD should be taking 5 x 150ml bottles per day at 6 weeks. Sadly no one has managed to explain this to DD, who wants less milk, more often. As an experienced FFer, I am confident enough to just feed her on demand and not make her wait 4 hours until her next feed or try to ram 150ml down her because the box says so.

However, the OP says that she can't afford the £100 for a pump. Unless that is a cash flow issue, you'll spend a lot more than that FFing a baby.

It's not just about the practicalities of FF'ing - what about the emotional side when you get to feel like a complete and utter failure?

What's wrong with a simple "I'm not allowed to promote formula feeding, however women who cannot breastfeed will, of course, be supported."

That said half of the time the breastfeeding "support" is shit as well.

When I ff dd and 3yrs later dts, looking back (and having subsequently read more info on Mn) I'm sure I was doing it incorrectly.

This was pre Mn for me and there was no-one to ask. I do remember trying to glean info from the HV but she wasn't very forthcoming. I do recall trying different teats for dd but it was so confusing.

Luckily my dc didn't become unwell and did ok, but I'm sure I was probably doing it wrongly certainly regarding temperatures and storage.

We are fine now, DD is a happy and healthy 9 year old. I had enough on my plate and a bit of help and guidance would have been much appreciated.

I remember the guilt, the overwhelming sense of failure at not successfully BF my first. After a prolonged and hideous back to back labour, I had the most horrendous episiotomy, failed ventouse then forceps delivery followed by a 3rd degree tear. My poor DD came out cut and battered and bruised with chunks of scalp missing. She wouldn't be laid on her back (hurt her poor head too much) had to be dosed up on calpol, screamed blue murder, wouldn't latch on, couldn't stay awake long enough to feed and by 36hrs post delivery had absolutely nil by mouth - I was at my wits end. MW recommended nipple shield, manhandled me, manhandled her, but she still wouldn't latch on. Of course I was devastated and having been drilled that 'breast is best' didn't want to try FF. Thank goodness my Mum arrived to dispense some common sense and a hug and to get a bottle & teat and feed her GD.
Upon returning home, I was that sleep deprived and sore and overwhelmed - I stood in front of the steriliser and cried. I couldn't figure it out, I couldn't figure out the instructions on the formula tin, I couldn't figure out how much she needed and what to make up for her in advance or not. In my opinion, all that stress and upset could have ben avoided with a quick demo in antenatal class of how to sterilise and make up bottles correctly. I still don't understand the need to demonise FF - it isn't poison!