Refusal to discuss formula feeding at parentcraft class

[obeliaboo]

AIBU? Ready for the fire!
I've been told that in order for me to have a tour of my chosen hospital's delivery suite, that i need to attend 'parentcraft' classes.
Yesterday was exclusively about breastfeeding, fair enough, didnt know that of course until we got there.
So, as the midwife goes on about breastfeeding and support, I enquire what is the support for those who fall into small percentage of mums who cannot breastfeed. Simple question.
"What do you mean?".
I had to ask again, and put it across that i intend to breastfeed, but what if i cant, what if my milk doesn't come in. It happens, it happened to my eldest sister, its nothing to be ashamed of so whats the harm in asking and what is the support in that situation.
"We don't discuss artificial feeding".
Seriously?? I understand the necessity to promote breastfeeding is a priority for the NHS, because it seriously needs normalising, but to just object to even touching on the subject of formula feeding really riled me. I felt like i was at a propaganda session! She instead continued to address breastfeeding and a specific brand of electric breast bump at a specifc well known retailer.
Is this what the NHS supports? Big business's and there overpriced products (the specific one mentioned was over £100, I am not in a position to be able to afford something like that for a start), under the guise that 'breast is best', its the best start for baby - and insinuating that formula is the devil when for some poor souls, it is the only option?
AIBU for finding this absolutely snotty and condescending? There are mums out there who are underconfident, or genuinely don't lactate, mums who have gone through breastcancer and mastectomies etc, so why are these midwives refusing to even consider discussing both options.
Why make it militant and harder for those who simply can't, to speak up without feeling ashamed?
FYI this is the 3rd midwife i've had ranting at me over this.

'mutter darkly' - don't be ridiculous, seaoflove.

My opinion is that its pretty bloody obvious that when it goes well bfing is best. It doesn't always though, then it's less clear cut.

Why is it necessary to keep reminding people who have to ff/ have chosen to ff about it? What does it achieve? It pisses people off, and possibly increases guilt in some no more no less.

Why not just make sure everyone is aware of the benefits then back off and support the decision made?

Instead we have posters everywhere, constant questioning by hcps, judgement, government health warnings on formula cans (when it is the best thing for babies not being breastfed). The whole thing is messed up.

You might be providing measured and accurate information about the benefits of bf Tiktok, but plenty of other people aren't. Admittedly they might not be hcp in the uk, but people no longer get all their information from hcp in the uk.

"Why not just make sure everyone is aware of the benefits then back off and support the decision made?"

I think if we had case loading care so a mother saw the same person all the way through her pregnancy, then it'd be easy to make sure that she'd had a chance to talk through all the information about feeding choices.

The problem is that women often see a different person every time, and that antenatal appointments are rushed, and that if you just give printed information there are women who won't read it.

I think the assumption on mn is that breastfeeding is so heavily promoted by the NHS that we all know what the benefits of breastfeeding are, and that it really doesn't need to be discussed. The research about what women know about breastfeeding doesn't entirely bear this out.

The 2010 Infant Feeding survey, which asks 8000 women about their feeding choices, says that while four out of five women are aware of the benefits of breastfeeding and are able to name one benefit, this proportion goes down to less than three in five women who left school at 16 - the group most likely to choose not to breastfeed.

here

and this is an excuse to keep badgering distraught mums with cheap lectures rather than providing bespoke support.

Ultimately if only 1% of babies are exclusively breastfed at 6 months old I'd suggest that the NHS stops sticking it's head in the sand and gives parents advice and information on formula feeding.

I have to say I bf but I am not really sure of any of the benefits of breastfeeding - the problem is there are so many wild over claims for breastfeeding (On a recent MN thread, it was claimed that breastfeeding could save more lives than vaccinations) that it's difficult to tell which ones are sensible and which ones are a bit nuts.

I then weigh that against the fact that I was formula fed and I am a pretty healthy 43 year old, and I struggle to come up with any definite benefits except for the fact that making up and having to cart around formula seems a bit of a faff.

There is a lot of bad science connected to breastfeeding. When you tell intelligent women that formula feeding can't even be discussed, it is a turn off. The factor that seems to have influenced most people on this thread seems to have been availability of post-natal breastfeeding support, not pre-natal knowledge of formula.

I'm not saying that there isn't a huge body of good science connected to breastfeeding. It's just that I think at all costs you need to avoid the hysterical hyperbole and the best way to do that is to talk to people like grown ups.

Tiktok, I have never seen any decent evidence based research to show that bf babies have any real health advantages over ff babies....in fact latest research shows supposed bf benefits have been dramatically overstated. It is in any case a difficult topic to research because you can't attribute child's health simply to the way they were fed without looking at other socioeconomic factors....

But anyway merits of bf over ff are not what this discussion is about, sorry, I just despise women like tiktok trying to make other women feel guilty for their choices.

There is no instruction or imperative or campaign or programme within the NHS to deny women information about formula feeding. If an hcp says 'we are not allowed to give you information about formula' then they are, quite simply, not doing their job properly.

What they can't do is 'recommend' a brand (though many do - quite erroneously). If the maternity unit is Baby Friendly or trying to become Baby Friendly, they have to make sure every woman understands about breastfeeding antenatally (because many women are from backgrounds where breastfeeding is 'alien', where their relatives and friends have not breastfed for generations, and where there is a real dearth of information). On mumsnet, you can usually assume that most posters are aware that breastfeeding is an option - I have worked in areas where women never even considered breastfeeding, because it did not ever emerge as anything they might do....why should they not at least have the chance to discuss it?

None of these antenatal discussions need be judgmental or critical about the use of formula. If midwives and others cannot discuss breastfeeding without bringing in moral judgments, then they need to be taught what to say and how to say it!

As for instructions about the use of formula, there is an NHS leaflet, and plenty of stuff on NHS websites. Instructions on safe prep are on every tin. Mothers need to have their attention brought to the fact that there are instructions, and that to ff safely, they need to be followed. Other stuff around formula feeding - how much to offer, what to do if the baby is sick, constipated etc etc - should be handled with support and good knowledge, at the time the info is needed. Happily, in the UK, basic practical questions like this can be answered by the midwife or HV in office hours, or outside these times, on NHS 101 or on the web....with daytime follow up soon after.

Tiktok, what you describe is simply NOT how many posters are experiencing/have experienced NHS maternity care. Something is very wrong at the heart of midwifery and hv care and no Hcp is doing anything about it.

ScrumpyBetty, sorry you despise me :(

I have never tried to make anyone feel guilty about their choices.

You can look up any of my posting over the past X years and you will find no evidence of that.

I don't think it serves anyone, least of all the baby :), if a mother feels guilty about how she is feeding.

There is no 'latest research' showing benefits to be dramatically overstated. Sometimes, the way the health impact of feeding is presented is distorted and exagerrated, for sure - but my guess is you are referring to the sibling study which showed no significant differences between ff and bf siblings in issues such as cognition, attachment, number recognition etc. No surprises there - many of the issues would be highly affected by family influences and genetics, and feeding would be less powerful.

The way a baby is fed in the first months of life does affect health, and 'latest research' does not overturn this. But to me, the mother's own experience and satisfaction in feeding, and autonomy, and empowerment, are the main thing. Most women want to breastfeed because they recognise it as a nice thing to do for their baby. Women from 'non-breastfeeding-backgrounds' sometimes give it a go and find they love it. They should at least have the chance to think about it

I fail to see what is despicable about my views.

Support form formula feeding in the hospital where I was with my premature newborns was non existent. Bullying to breastfeed was prevalent and caused great distress to many.

sparky, I know it's not what people experience.

It's rubbish, isn't it?

Women should start kicking a few arses!!

How can you kick arse when you are struggling and desperate for any kind of help? The professions need to fix themselves.

It's well known that many people don't use formula properly, water it down, put too much formula in, over feed, don't sterilse properly, use formula made hours ago etc. but the is no help or instruction in this. Formula used properly is not significantly "worse" than breast milk and in some ways better eg there a vitamins in formula but not in breast milk. Yet hospital staff are not allowed to advise it is crazeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I set out again my all time low on this issue : I became very ill and needed to be readmitted - despite the mw insistance, baby stayed at home with mil and DH because I was not well enough to care for her and the ward was too short staffed to help me. Baby was fine. Mil asked mw how to feed baby and mw said "I'm not allowed to tell you but [cue theatrical gesture ] THAT stuff".

My experience exactly sparky. The world has gone mad that only breastfeeding is presented as an option.

I won't be having any more children but if I did I wouldn't even attempt breastfeeding, it was a hideous four weeks and there is no way I would go through it again. My dds are top of the class, have 100% school attendance and no illnesses. They do not seem to have suffered. My friend extended breast fed her dd has a litany of stomach related ailments.

So sorry Heels. How shit.
When I subsequently developed PTSD my flashbacks were not the birth itself, as traumatic as it was, it was the kind of useless and frightening crap I have described. I developed a fear of nurses so powerful that it extended to hapless assistants in Boots dressed in hygienic mode. I'm better now but still have to steal myself when buying a lipstick . So no, I don't have the strength to campaign on this.

It seems to me that any comparison between BF and FF is inevitably confounded with the difference between FF well and FF badly. And perhaps the majority belong in the FF badly category.

Heels, the shitness being your maternity experience not your fab healthy child.

heels- are you suggesting that breastfeeding causes stomach problems?

Give over, ant, (excuse me for butting in heels) . The example given is to illustrate that ff babies are not doomed to gastric misery and development problems as some ignorant material will insist.

So launching an attack on breastfeeding helps does it?

That's not how I read it. And please notice that posters on here are not debating relative merits of one over the other. Many (self included) have had unhelpful health care when at their most vulnerable.