to think this is unacceptable and wonder why Scotland is fair game for racist attacks like this

[ScotsWhaHae]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/mar/09/steve-bells-if-

It's not even funny.

Incest? Wtf?

I'm disappointed in the guardian. It raises the question though, substitute the Scottish references for some other nation, would that be acceptable?

We got told repeatedly about the anti English sentiment north of the border last year, during the referendum. Shit like this isn't appearing in Scottish editions of the news papers.

Along with the casual racism lets add sexism into the mix. We have a female first minister. Repeatedly in main stream media I hear people talk about Alex salmond and the snp. He's not the leader of the party or the first minister. Is the press that out if touch with Scottish politics or are they just ignoring Nicola on account of her begin female?

And let's not get started on 'the wee lassie with a tin helmet' comment. But that won't be in any of the English editions will it?

The original cartoon is certainly offensive and I find it hard to credit that it appeared in the Guardian of all places. But I don't think people in England have a monopoly on offensive jokes.

Anyway, the indy debate could become a thing of the past if we end up with a Labour-SNP coalition with Nicola Sturgeon as deputy PM. Maybe if she's deputy PM of the whole of the UK she'll be less keen on becoming PM of a much smaller country?

I don't want the UK broken up so in that sense I don't like the SNP. But I do like some of their more progressive policies and they appear to run a tight ship in Scotland, which is how they attract support from those who are pro-UK.

As for blaming the "English" for the clearances, Culloden, William Wallace and the like, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I was born in 1972 and bear no responsibility for any of it. And I didn't vote until 1990 so didn't elect Maggie Thatcher either. And even if I had lived at the time of the Clearances, I probably would have been some poor peasant and would have had little to do with anyway. It wans't England vs Scotland it was rich lowlanders versus poor highlanders. This constant harping on about ancient history is childish and stupid and irrational (and yes I know Britain as a whole is guilty of it in relation to WW2 as well although I think lots of Brits like and admire the Germans these days).

The UK needs to stay together and stop getting at each other. We've got far more serious enemies eg ISIS. Lets get a sense of perspective.

No won. And yet we are now seeing our vote railroaded by the SNP who are not respecting the settled will of the people, but seeking to get round it with political machinations

You mean democracy?

Not once have NS or AS come out and condemned the intimidation and nastiness of the likes of Wings, or the 45, or any other fringe organisations

I didn't see Cameron condemning the terrifying BritNat abuse either? Politicians can't really be held responsible for the acts of other people, who are acting independently. There are fringe elements to any cause who behave unacceptably, it is wrong to try and suggest they are representative of the cause, and it is also generally wrong to try and implicate the government.

I didn't see.anyone blame Cameron for the George Square riot for example?

ISIS like fervour of the Yes campaign

You lost me there. Will I bother googling how many No voters were beheaded by Yes campaigners?

Actually laughing at the comparison with ISIS.
WTAF.

ISIS??? Jesus........

And yes I knew all about the call to boycott, found done of it quite funny actually but I like shopping in Asda too much to join in!

Well, I'm not eligible to vote in Scotland any more - by chance, I moved with work for a temporary opportunity just after the Referendum and no longer live there. And now that I've moved, I don't think I'll be in a hurry to come back. I'd forgotten how refreshing it was to live in a country where there isn't this continual agitation for change going on (nor the abuse that in the UK tends to go along with it). Its just a much, much nicer life.

I guess the only thing that cybernats achieve is causing arguments and making people want to live elsewhere - but that's always been a problem for Scotland long before now.

I admit that I do perceive this new Scotland as being a bit sinister, a bit similar to the former USSR in some ways. In wanting to control its citizens' lives, in monitoring them, and in failing to grant them rights in return (such as by a written constitution). Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid - who knows - it just simply seems easier to live in a part of the world where none of this is going on and you know whats likely to affect your life from one day to the next. If it was genuinely like one of the Scandinavian countries, I would feel different, but Scotland is as far removed from that as its possible to be - theres far too much corruption, jobs for the boys, tendency towards being abusive, etc..

I cannot take seriously as a supposedly more fair and more just society a regime which does not tackle massive inbred fraud such as in the Edinburgh Statutory repairs scam (the Scottish Parliament has never even debated it), the lost sex scandal dossier, the excessively expensive PPI contracts awarded to cronies at taxpayers' expense, etc.. Even buying or selling a house is now not only much more expensive than in England but still requires the discredited seller's survey. I'm also really shocked at how people who push for independence don't bother to educate themselves with an open mind on all these things.

If all this is off-putting to an individual like me, I should imagine its even more off-putting to new businesses, and that this effect will only worsen over time.

There are so many nicer parts of the world to live in where you don't have to put up with this!

Ah! Now I recognise you Chandler!

I'm happy for you that you have moved to a country more to your liking. Your passionate hatred and disdain for Scots and Scotland has always shone through in your posts.

I've always enjoyed sparring with you on these threads, and I wish you the very best for your future

Itsallgoingtobefine I'm impressed you recognise me from what I say above, as I didn't move until after the Referendum.

I must say I feel much safer now being outwith Scotland, in talking about the negative aspects of it, as it would be much more difficult for a lunatic cybernat to hunt me down...I'm joking, of course.

Before we get onto the changing username excitement again - I am a poster who likes not only to post on Scottish independence on mumsnet, but who feels it important to speak out for Scottish issues, and for security reasons, I always change my name regularly - different for posters who perhaps only post on this issue and are card carrying pro Independence supporters - see above.

But wow, life is so much more fun outside Scotland, without all this going on. I'm so glad I moved. I can't believe people are doing this to a formerly peaceful country.

It's all good then Chandler. Glad everyone's happy.

Well I'm completely lost now.

I think Scotland is still a very peaceful, safe place to live and I do not feel any fear of my political 'enemies'. But other than that, I largely agree with Rose above who says the yes campaign was divisive and intimidating.

It was hard for me as a life long liberal to be told repeatedly I was a Tory/ supported child poverty/ wanted Trident etc because I supported the union.

The majority spoke. I don't expect yes voters to disappear or forget their political aims, but I'm disappointed to find myself enduring all the same cyber shit as we approach the GE.

I'll be glad when it's over and we can get back to business as usual. I personally think the SNP landslide will fail to materialise but we'll find out soon enough.

And lol at political machinations vs. democracy.

The yes voters on my FB feed (and there are many) were convinced that democracy was not served in the indyref. They only think it's democracy when they like the result.

MorrisZapp I think Scotland is still a very peaceful, safe place to live and I do not feel any fear of my political 'enemies'. But other than that, I largely agree with Rose above who says the yes campaign was divisive and intimidating.

True, I suppose we should feel glad it has not gone the way of Northern Ireland.

But if the best thing you can say about a political movement is that its not resulted in civil war and terrorism, that's not really saying much!

The No vote is the referendum was democratic. Anyone who says otherwise is deluded (as some on the extreme fringes of the Yes campaign undoubtedly are).

Exercising a democratic right to vote SNP/continuing to campaign for independence is democratic. Those who think the Yes campaign/SNP should have ceased to exist after the referendum are also deluded (as some extreme BritNats undoubtedly are)

I think if the jokes are getting nasty (and this one definitely is) then the Lefties are getting very anxious about the make up of the future Gov.

Good says I.

Any shake up is a good thing as most MPs are liars and we need big changes to improve things.

"political machinations" is something I stand by. Suddenly, the SNP are going to vote on Education and the NHS for England because, suddenly, they can see a chance of holding people down there to ransom.

I think they have overplayed their hand, however, by announcing their "red line issues". Nothing like showing your cards to ensure that you lose the game.

I voted Yes and can see the No result of the referendum was democratic, as much as I was disappointed by it obviously. But democracy doesnt suddenly just stop because the referendum is over, as everyone is aware there is a General Election coming up - and I have the deomocratic right to vote for the SNP.

Has the SNPs position on voting in WM actually changed? My understanding was that they voluntarily did not vote on any issue which affected England or Wales only?

Eg What happens to the NHS in England does impact on Scotland as the funding is linked.

I think some of you have forgotten how intimidated No supporters were by the almost ISIS like fervor of the Yes campaign.

This is insanely offensive and very, very stupid. You do understand that ISIS murder people don't you? As opposed to a democratic

And there it is.

The 'yes voters are terrible, I'm scared' tactic deployed.

Please, fuck off. So many decent arguments were stifled with that line throughout the referendum don't do that here. Change the record.

And please, you won. Let's move on. That's why we're onto a different topic.

It's naive at best to think that the intimidation and abuse only came from the "yes" side.

I don't really think that complaining about a cartoon (please find me the government/regime/country that isn't subject to political satire) is "moving on" - I think its selectively choosing the points which benefit your argument and practising selective amnesia as to the facts which got you there.

"I think some of you have forgotten how intimidated No supporters were by the almost ISIS like fervor of the Yes campaign."

Compared to the delight of living surrounded by the orange order, who were not only marching on the run up to it, but stood outside polling stations harassing people as the vote was happening?...nope that wasn't intimidating at all.