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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is unacceptable and wonder why Scotland is fair game for racist attacks like this

327 replies

ScotsWhaHae · 09/03/2015 13:11

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/mar/09/steve-bells-if-

It's not even funny.

Incest? Wtf?

I'm disappointed in the guardian. It raises the question though, substitute the Scottish references for some other nation, would that be acceptable?

We got told repeatedly about the anti English sentiment north of the border last year, during the referendum. Shit like this isn't appearing in Scottish editions of the news papers.

Along with the casual racism lets add sexism into the mix. We have a female first minister. Repeatedly in main stream media I hear people talk about Alex salmond and the snp. He's not the leader of the party or the first minister. Is the press that out if touch with Scottish politics or are they just ignoring Nicola on account of her begin female?

And let's not get started on 'the wee lassie with a tin helmet' comment. But that won't be in any of the English editions will it?

OP posts:
Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 09/03/2015 14:52

I'll stick with racism, thanks. Or more accurately, racial discrimination as defined by the UN.

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life

OP posts:
goindowntoyasgursfarm · 09/03/2015 14:53

Can you imagine a cartoon like that being directed at Muslims, or Jews?

Heads would roll. Perhaps literally.

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/03/2015 15:06

Yabu

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 09/03/2015 15:29

Could you elaborate?

OP posts:
Taz1212 · 09/03/2015 16:10

Thank you for the explanation, sleepyhead. On the basis of that, it's just stupid and still not funny. Can I find it too stupid to be offensive?

goindowntoyasgursfarm · 09/03/2015 16:15

It's hard to find it inoffensive when you consider the rampant Scotophobic (I might have coined a neologism there Grin) hatred which caused Bell to spout it.

goindowntoyasgursfarm · 09/03/2015 16:16

Woops, scotophobia is actually a fear of darkness. Who knew?

FannyFifer · 09/03/2015 16:27

Not the first offensive cartoon by Bell.
I know humour is subjective but no one could possibly find that funny.

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/03/2015 16:42

Sorry, didn't realise I'd posted and wandered off.

I was going to say - yabu to describe it as racism, regardless of what the UN (not legally binding) has to say. It is certainly Xenophobic...which doesn't make it any less bad.

However YANBU to find it offensive. As Moomin said upthread - the Welsh and Irish welcome Scotland into its new shared status as the butt of English people's incredibly funny jibes. Hmm

Bair · 09/03/2015 16:47

'But I suppose being outraged ranks higher than being well read.'

Ouch. Seriously. I take an interest in politics. I've not got a degree, but I can put of a roof on your house that won't fall down or let in cold and wind. There's different kinds of smart.

Maybe if the phrase used had been in line with the quote I could have googled it and gone from there.

I can't bring myself to be outraged, I think it's awful but ,I'll save my energy for my local MP's voting habits in WM. But if he's got the right to say it I won't shout down anyone's right be be outraged. Free speech and all.

Celticlass2 · 09/03/2015 17:16

Yes it's pretty outrageous, but par for the course really. This is pretty much how the English political elite, and the London based media think of Scotland.
The scots should have taken Independance when they had the chance! I'll never Understand why they chose to stay in a union where they were not really wanted.

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 09/03/2015 17:20

Only wanted when we tow the line.

OP posts:
JeanetteDanielsBenziger · 09/03/2015 17:25

I've often wondered why referring to Scottish people as scots is okay (or portrayed as such in the media etc), But if you were to do it with people who hail from Pakistan, Its racist?

I am Scottish and being referred to as a scot doesn't bother me in the slightest. (Being called Scotch however grrrr)

Celticlass2 · 09/03/2015 17:26

Only wanted when we tow the line Indeed ScotsWhaHae it was pretty obvious at the time. Still staggered thst so many people didn't see this, or maybe chose not to see it..

Original poster
ScotsWhaHae · 09/03/2015 17:29

I think because we have the ever endearing 'Jock', Scot is fine.

OP posts:
HirplesWithHaggis · 09/03/2015 17:52

The Unionist parties, MSM, WM Gvt et al spent a great deal of time, energy and dosh entreating Scots to stay in the Union. And yet they're outraged when Scots expect to participate in said Union. Confused

ZoomZoomToTheMoon · 09/03/2015 17:58

That is quite bad. Steve Bell pillories most politicians and I don't think his portrayal of Sturgeon is any ruder than most of them, but the incest is not on.

I love Nicola Sturgeon. (though I am not SNP and voted no.) She's a great politician who could teach the UK leaders loads.

ragged · 09/03/2015 18:01

Don't think the Scotts have a monopoly on incest or country dancing. Neither one is particularly scottish, so I guess it's just a personal go at Nicola S?

hackmum · 09/03/2015 18:05

I spotted the reference to the Thomas Beecham quote (though I think it's folk dancing rather than either Scottish country dancing or Morris dancing) but I still don't get the joke, which makes it a pretty spectacular fail as a cartoon.

DontDrinkandFacebook · 09/03/2015 18:05

Can you imagine a cartoon like that being directed at Muslims, or Jews?

Heads would roll. Perhaps literally.

It isn't funny at all. It's quite offensive. I can't decide whether it's racist or not. I would have said yes at one time but I've been brainwashed by MN into believing that you can't be racist to people who are of the same race as you. But after you posted that definition from the UN I am leaning towards yes, it's racism.

Sexist though? Confused I don't see that.

SauvignonBlanche · 09/03/2015 18:11

Clickable link

I agree it is highly offensive and xenophobic in the extreme but it is not racist.

Brandysnapper · 09/03/2015 18:23

UK law also includes nationality in its definition of race (Equality Act).
I think the cartoon is awful.

escondida · 09/03/2015 19:15

Is it implying that SNP are too insular & that nobody takes them as seriously as they take themselves? Who is NS dancing with, Salmond?

Bair · 09/03/2015 19:37

'nobody takes them as seriously as they take themselves?'

I think it is Salmond, no one seems to get he's not the leader anymore. Plus he's hard to like so easily used.

I dunno about nobody taking them seriously, Labour are shitting themselves over the SNP. If you vote SNP you get Tories. And Tories are all fussed up saying if we vote SNP we get Labour. And apparently Alex Salmond will be second to Milliband, cos we can't acknowledge Nicola as a leader in her own right.

Agree with Hirples, all that Better Together stuff but no one wants a Scottish party in WM seats.

Jesus, I've never voted SNP before, they're not my dream party. I don't think it's possible for an English person to be a Scottish Nationalist, but I'd rather see Sturgeon leading Scotland than that bloody Murphy.

FannyFifer · 09/03/2015 19:51

There used to be cartoons like this about the irish.

Quite like "wee Ginger Dugs" take on it.
weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/bell-end-of-the-union/