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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think my friend's children should go to church?

491 replies

ClassicTron · 09/03/2015 11:30

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

OP posts:

UndecidedNow · 09/03/2015 16:43

Well I have to say, as an adult, I would feel that I ought to go the service as I know it would make my mum happy. Nothing to do about believing in that religion. But everything to do with the fact that I think it's just polite and a nice thing to do.

Fwiw, my mil is also keen on going to church. I have a completely different religion, the dcs are have decided they are non believers and DH isn't keen at all. But we still all go for Christmas, Easter and another couple if times. Because it's important to her to have her family around.

I do think that the fact Her DH isn't religious is playing a big part. I suspect he has 'supported' their dcs decision to not want to go so that he didn't have to go in the first place. Hearing about it all the time (ifs he is that involved), probably didn't help either.

UndecidedNow · 09/03/2015 16:50

And tbh, I dontbthink that children orcteenagershave the maturity to decide if 'they believe in God'.
They are more likely to rebel against something they find deadly boring lol.

But believing in God? Of course, you do have people who just 'believe' from an early age normally because their parents do and have taugh them about the faith. You rare,y see a 7yo deciding he will be a Muslim or a Buddhist out of the blue for example. But after that, it's a process coming from your experiences in life, what you have read/thought about/learn about a particular religion. And children or teens do not have that experience.

Bilberry · 09/03/2015 17:14

What their mother is asking for is a gift of their time, tolerance and understanding. I know this is a big ask of teenagers who would rather just grab a box of chocolates. Gifts should never be forced but it would be a very nice thing for them to give.

I don't see how a mothering Sunday service differs that much from a wedding. They both have liturgy, hymns, prayers and a sermon/talk. A Mothering Sunday/mothers day service is likely to be a family service and therefore quite 'light' with a simple message and short prayers to appeal to primary school aged children. It is highly unlikely they will be asked to participate; everyone knows how embarrassing this is for teenagers.

During prayers, just sit, maybe stare at your shoes if you don't know where else to look, and think about lunch, whether you should polish your shoes, what you are doing later, contemplate on something that matters to you, or listen to the prayers. At other points sit or stand as appropriate, you really don't have to join in anymore than that! (You can stay sat if you want to). A lot of churches would be so pleased to see teenagers there they wouldn't care if they played on their phones the whole time!!

AgathaF · 09/03/2015 17:21

What their mother is asking for is a gift of their time, tolerance and understanding - she's also asking for a public statement in the form of handing her flowers at a church service. I just don't understand why that should be so important to someone. If they love her, and her them, why does she need this from them?

TeacupDrama · 09/03/2015 17:25

The OP is actually employed by the church so being at church on Sunday is probably a requirement of her job she almost certainly has different days off, so in that sense she is not prioritising church over family as taking Sunday school etc is her job, not really much different from a nurse working Weekends our minister has Mondays and Wednesday mornings ooff, the only Sunday he will have off is annual leave. An employee of the church is not neglecting her family by being away part of every Sunday but working to provide for her family at something that ius very important to her on a personal as well as a professional level

Her not going to a football match on Sunday mornings because she is working is no different to someone who does not take them to football after school on Thursdays as they have to work till 9pm.

I think it is healthy for any parent to be able to do something for themselves whether it is golf gym, church cake decorating or whatever without allegations of being a rubbish parent.

fatlazymummy · 09/03/2015 17:35

undecided What an odd thing to say.
Of course children/teenagers have the maturity to 'decide if they believe in God'.
You either believe, or you don't.

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 17:41

I think the boys should go to church.

They aren't being made to participate by handing over flowers. Participate would be saying the prayers and things like going up for communion.

I would be heartbroken if my boys wouldn't come to church with me. I think it is a real shame that they can't do something that would make their mum happy on Mother's Day.

nooyearnooname · 09/03/2015 17:45

I've been the teenager in your scenario. I was forced to church my whole childhood until about 13 when I point blank refused to go any more. 30 years later I still refuse other than weddings and funerals. I resented the hell out of my DM for forcing her religious beliefs on me as a child, and even as a young adult, she just wouldn't give up with it. I actively do not believe in God, loathe organised religion and I would find a church service praising God very difficult to attend, it sits so badly with me now.

YABVU. Once they are old enough to understand, children should have a choice as to whether to participate in organised religion or not and she should respect that. IMO that is a much better way of leaving the door open for them to change their minds later in life.

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 09/03/2015 17:45

She needs to get a grip. I think the least you can expect is a card for Mother's Day. Yes, flowers and chocolates are lovely and always well received but I wouldn't like them buying that because they feel like they have too just because it's Mother's Day. It's just another thing that's become commercialised.

fatlazymummy · 09/03/2015 17:46

Annunziata what's the point of going if they're not going to participate? Just to be there?
They're teenage boys, why would they be expected to tag along if they're old enough to stay at home on their own?

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 17:48

Because it would make their mum happy to have them there!

Hakluyt · 09/03/2015 17:49

Atheists are always being told that they should just do a little bit of religion to keep other people happy. Nobody ever expects people of faith to do a little hit of atheism..........

Charlotte3333 · 09/03/2015 17:50

I wouldn't make my children go to church once they're old enough to form an opinion of their own. We go to our local church for things like Christingle, Easter sunday, garden parties and fetes, fair weather stuff, and haven't ever been deeply religious or taught the children about Christianity as 'the true faith', more we teach them about all kinds of faiths, all kinds of gods, all kinds of beliefs including our own.

DS1 (9) is a little bit God-crazy and tells us "God says..." when he thinks we're in the wrong. I daresay in another few years his thoughts could have changed again. But not once have I ever forced religion on him, and ironically enough he's finding it on his own. Which I love. Forcing children to attend church could have the opposite effect on them and I'd be pretty unhappy if my DH forced my children to do something they strongly felt they didn't believe in.

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 17:51

Nobody ever expects people of faith to do a little hit of atheism

Well they should, it works both ways.

More and more people are getting married with humanists and religious people go to their weddings. I've been to two :)

owlborn · 09/03/2015 17:53

I think it's nice to give your mother a card on mother's day. I think going to church, which is basically a statement of faith that you might not have, isn't necessary.

I also suspect that if she's crying on people about how they won't go, there's a fair bit of guilt tripping going on at home which won't be helping. What teenager wants to spend Sunday in church because their mother cried at them, listening to a service they don't believe in and may well have (perfectly reasonable) moral or ethical objections, before handing over a bunch of flowers paid for by the church in order to let their mother show off in public.

SukieTuesday · 09/03/2015 17:53

I was forced to go every Sunday and holy day of obligation until I was 16. I've only set foot in church since twice. Both for funerals. I was damaged by their bullshit.

fatlazymummy · 09/03/2015 17:55

Annunziata sorry, it's just weird.
Surely a parent has to accept that teenage children usually develop different ideas and interests as they grow up.

maddy68 · 09/03/2015 17:55

No one should ever be forced to go to church Ever !

Hakluyt · 09/03/2015 17:56

Nobody ever expects people of faith to do a little hit of atheism

Well they should, it works both ways.

More and more people are getting married with humanists and religious people go to their weddings. I've been to two smile"

Going to a wedding- of whatever faith or none- does not require active participation. Taking part in a Mother's day service would.

MrsItsNoworNotatAll · 09/03/2015 17:57

All her husband needs to do is make they get her card. Getting upset because they don't want to give her flowers in front of everyone is being a bit precious.

Or is because she doesn't even get a card that she's upset? No acknowledgement at all? Cos I could understand that.

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 17:59

Humanist celebrations are not in a building dedicated to the worship of a (fictional) being or saying words aimed at said (fictional) being.

It's a celebration of two human beings wanting to be together. So, not even faintly the same thing.

You'd be heartbroken if your boys wouldn't come to church with you? Why?

If you just want their time, you can have it in a restaurant or at home. If you decide that it can only be at church, then there must be some "God" aspect to what you want.

And some of us prefer not to pay lip service to beliefs we consider utterly fatuous and infantile even to make our dear ones happy.

Personal beliefs are exactly that....personal.

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 17:59

Yes, but they should also be developing a sense of compassion and kindness. They aren't babies, they should be able to say that they can suffer through it for one week because it would make their mum so happy. I bet she has suffered through many things that make her bored silly and feeling stupid.

She's accepted that they don't want to go every week, which I would find it very hard to accept from my children. Now it's time for them to say thank you for doing that and give her a bit of support when she would like it the most.

fatlazymummy · 09/03/2015 18:01

Annunziata why would you be unhappy if your sons didn't want to go to church with you?

Brandysnapper · 09/03/2015 18:02

A Catholic wedding involves a mass surely.

Hakluyt · 09/03/2015 18:02

If it's just a matter of being bored, then I agree they should probably go. But i don't see why an atheist should take part in a religious service to please someone else. People of faith often find this difficult to grasp.

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