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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think my friend's children should go to church?

491 replies

ClassicTron · 09/03/2015 11:30

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

OP posts:

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 15:48

There's a difference between "Mothering Sunday" and "Mother's Day". They do not have the same origins, although they have merged somewhat.

The OP is talking about Mother's Day which her church has appropriated. That's fine, but to suggest that the whole thing is "based on faith" is not true.

Marshy · 09/03/2015 15:51

I think it's a bit of a red herring as to whether the day is faith based or not. In this scenario the issue is whether or not the dc will celebrate the day with their mum in church.

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 15:54

I agree, Marshy, but I got this face for pointing out (rightly) that Mother's Day had nothing to do with religion.

So really, why should the teens be forced to go to church to celebrate it? Do they have to go to church for Mum's birthday or wedding anniversary? Father's Day? Pancake Day?

LineRunner · 09/03/2015 15:55

Celebrate the appropriation of a commercialised calendar day by the church? Why?

LineRunner · 09/03/2015 15:56

Yeah, let's do Church for Comic Relief.

Ragwort · 09/03/2015 15:57

But are the teenagers refusing to go to Church because they have thought about their faith and have genuinely chosen to be agnostic or athiest, or a different faith to their mother?

Have they said they would like to stay home so they can prepare a nice lunch to spoil their mum?

Or have they said they don't want to go because they can't get off their backsides and would rather play on the X-box/football/have a lie in?

I don't wish to get hung up on the precise detail of the origins of Mothering Sunday - clearly (well, to me) in this case the op's friend does feel that this particular service is important to her faith and to her role as a mother.

Pippidoeswhatshewants · 09/03/2015 15:58

I am sure her dcs would feel like complete hypocrites, making a big show of giving flowers to mum in church because she wants them to. I wouldn't make them do it. Teenagers can smell double standards a mile off...

On the other hand, she could ask her dcs if they would consider coming to church with her as a special Mother's Day treat for her. They might surprise her and go along with it.

Marshy · 09/03/2015 16:03

Caffe I take your point though I think mums birthday was on the list of days the dc should attend - not sure why.

Out of interest I have just asked my ds 17 what his response would be if I asked him to present flowers to me in church on mother's day. He said "I would tell you to do one - are you on mumsnet"

He's a nice boy really and probably not fair to ask as he is an atheist through and through - for the moment at least.

Bilberry · 09/03/2015 16:06

I think it would be nice of her children to go to church. They are NOT being forced into religious observation they are simply being asked to go to something that means an awful lot to their mother. Just being at church doesn't require any set of beliefs, it is no different from a wedding or christening or funeral (which are definitely still about God; just focusing principally on a specific individual's relationship with God). I would say it is also no different to going to say an amateur dramatic performance their mother was in; probably of no interest to them but supportive of their mother. You aren't forced to pray in church, or sing songs.

Marshy · 09/03/2015 16:06

Ragwort I did ask that question some way upthread. If they have a belief but can't be arsed to get out of bed on a Sunday then I think some discussion and encouragement would be in order. We haven't been given this info.

Marshy · 09/03/2015 16:09

Well that's ok then. I don't believe in God but I might just pop along sometime soon if there's something good on

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 16:13

I have an 18 year old who would say exactly the same thing. He doesn't even like to be seen in public with me!

I am an atheist, but I suppose the closest comparison I can make is asking my son to come to my Humanism meeting with me on my birthday. I suppose he might do this if I nagged enough and it meant enough to me, but it would be a bit pointless and he wouldn't want to be there.

Nothing wrong with the OP's friend wanting her kids in church for Mother's Day. But there's everything wrong with the OP believing that their father ought to basically force them to go.

Hakluyt · 09/03/2015 16:16

I'm sure someone's said this- but at a wedding or a funeral you do not have to participate in the service. At a Mother's Day service you would.

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 16:18

Ragwort Why does the reason they don't want to go matter? Playing on X Box or making a ideological statement, it amounts to the same thing?

Mother's Day is supposed to be for THEM to show their appreciation for their mum with gifts they've chosen and sentiments that matter to them.

Demanding that they do it in a certain way and in a certain place is a bit Mumzilla.

HootyMcTooty · 09/03/2015 16:18

For those saying it's not a big deal even if they don't have faith, I beg to differ. As an atheist I feel very uncomfortable during church services, even weddings and funerals. I don't mind the hymns (I'm up for any chance to belt out a tune albeit badly), but prayers and preaching make me feel enormously uncomfortable. I don't know where to look, what to do with myself, I can't bear it. I don't like feeling like a fraud, I don't want to appear disrespectful and so I end up terrified I'll do the wrong thing. Gives me sweaty palms just thinking about it.

Ragwort · 09/03/2015 16:19

I don't believe in God but I might just pop along sometime soon if there's something good on - actually quite a few, mainly older, people do that, it is a way of meeting people, getting companionship, being part of a 'community' that might otherwise be lacking in their lives. It might not be what many of us would do but most Churches do understand that not everyone goes to Church purely for the religious aspects of it. And no, they are not all hoping that people will be 'sucked into' a faith.

Anyway, we are now getting away from the main discussion.

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 16:19

That's a really good point, Haklyut. No, I don't think anyone's said that. And it's true. It's a demand for participation.

specialsubject · 09/03/2015 16:21

good for her for giving her children the option so early in life. That demonstrates tolerance and open-mindedness.

but crying because she isn't being given flowers at a ceremony? Sorry, but that is so immature. I hope nothing really bad ever happens to her if she starts crying over this...

I do NOTHING for Mother's Day. I appreciate my mother all the time, show it by deeds and words, and have said so to her. She agrees with this position. Same for father's day BTW.

oh, and flowers are best in the garden where they grew.

Mistigri · 09/03/2015 16:23

Does it matter why the teenagers choose not to go to church?

Either religious observance is a personal choice - or it's not. Would anyone here support the idea that a sincerely religious teenager should be discouraged or even prevented from attending church just because it upset his or her parents?

Ragwort · 09/03/2015 16:26

Demanding that they do it in a certain way and in a certain place is a bit Mumzilla - yes, I see that point exactly but in this scenario we have a woman who is genuinely upset that her sons won't share in something that is very important to her. From what we have been told of this situation it is easy to just dismiss her as being a 'mumzilla' (great expression) but I am trying to look at it with empathy and as the mother of a teenage boy.

It is a difficult situation, I am a Church goer (as you probably realise ) and I do expect my son to come with me to Church on Christmas Day - fortunately (so far) I have not been in the situation where he has refused to come with me so it is interesting to think about how I would deal with that.

FWIW Mothering Sunday is not a 'special' service to me and I haven't yet decided whether I will go this Sunday and I personally wouldn't expect my DS to come with me.

This has been a genuinely interesting thread - plenty to discuss .

geekymommy · 09/03/2015 16:28

She's not the sort who, if you give them an inch, will try to get a light year, is she? If they did go to church on Mother's Day with her, would she start complaining that they didn't go at other times, or about how they dressed, etc? People who act like that give you no reason to give them what they want- they're going to complain no matter what you do. If you try to compromise with that sort of person, you usually just get more complaining. The only way to deal with them is to set firm boundaries and never back down.

Ragwort · 09/03/2015 16:29

Misti - another very interesting point, I started attending Church in my teens, my parents have never been church goers and in fact my mother is Athiest (and very intellectual about it as well). However she does accompany me to church on occasions as she knows it is important to me and she enjoys meeting people at church.

Marshy · 09/03/2015 16:30

Gotta go now but thanks for an interesting discussion and I hope the op's friend has a nice day, however she spends it

CaffeLatteIceCream · 09/03/2015 16:34

Ragwort I expect you'll be upset and disappointed if your son decides to stop going with you at Christmas. But I doubt you'll try to force him.

LineRunner · 09/03/2015 16:41

One of my teenagers would refuse to attend church on the grounds that The Church is broadly homophobic, sexist and has investments in unethical enterprises.

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