to think my friend's children should go to church?

[ClassicTron]

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

"I have a solo part in the choir and it would really help my nerves if there were some friendly faces in the congregation. I know church isn't your thing, but it would really help if you were there" - fine.

"Please come to church on Mothering Sunday because if you don't I will feel that you don't love me as much as the other children love their mothers and I will cry" - emotional blackmail.

Or please come to church on mothers day because I played a big part in arranging the day, its a very special day for me and it would mean alot to me if you were there. Fine or blackmail?

It's not just coming to church- it's taking part in the service. These are two different things.

I'd be fine about supporting any event that somebody had worked on. However, thinking about it, it's the being overly prescriptive about Mother's Day part that I find cloying.

It does sound as though a bit of a public performance is required by the people attending.

Sorry, required of the people attending.

I don't think church is right, I don't think it is wrong, I do think it is a matter of individual choice and that parents have no business trying to impose their choice once their offspring are old enough to make their own choice - which a teen is.

Merrymouse is spot on. Provided the first request is not too often.

To say that this thread is about mothers because OP['s friend] is a mother is like saying it is about sons because OP['s friend]'s children are boys. It's about parents and teenage children regardless of gender.

Andrew, this thread is actually just about the OP's friend, her DH and her sons and her wish that they attend church this Sunday. It is that specific.

It is not about people who have taken a principled stance, we don't know that that has happened in this instance. It could be that they just can't be arsed. It's not about forcing them to go for years and making them resentful. That has not happened, she has accepted their choice. It's not about child abuse or emotional blackmail. We don't have any info that suggests that this woman's children are being abused. Or neglected.

It is about a woman who would like something for Mother's Day. I suggest that instead of crying on her friend's shoulder, she talk to her family. And they can talk to her about their feelings. It's called communication and has been shown to increase understanding between people.

Because people are not all the same. You have your prohibitive list where you view asking as emotional blackmail. The OP's friend's family may not have such a list, or theirs may be different to yours. The only way she will find out is to talk to them about it.

Why are her sons not going - is it because they just can't be bothered or is it because they really do not share their mother's religious beliefs? If it is the former, I can understand the mother's upset. If it's the latter then she really shouldn't expect them to go and participate in something they do not believe in. Do they actively NOT believe or are they against her religion? In which case I don't blame them at all for not getting involved in the church service, even if it meant alot to their mum.

This is very different from going along to a football match even if you don't really enjoy it. I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything they did not believe in, or were against, just because it pleased me.

It's called communication and has been shown to increase understanding between people

Doesn't seem to be working on this thread

It rarely works in AIBU Marshy, even less so where religion, FF or vaccinations are concerned.

But it can be a good thing for families to do.

I think actually crying about this is such a reaction hat many of us wonder about emotional blackmail, etc.

Feeling a bit wistful or sad at their non church going, or frustrated and angry at teen non gratitude would be one thing but crying and declining to run her group with children?

I saw the thread title and thought yabu. I've now read the thread and that opinion hasn't changed.

Go out for lunch, afternoon tea maybe, but don't force church on two reluctant teens. Sounds like a recipe for awkwardness. Agreed that children should become used to doing things for others but I'm getting the feeling this is as much about restoring pride on the part of the mother as it is anything else.

Most likely, if forced, they will turn up under extreme sufferance and that will show to everyone. Not the touching scenes she might be envisioning.

Dione There is no reason to believe that the OP's friend (if indeed she exists and is not the OP) would feel differently if she had daughters who did not want to go with her to church. And if the OP had posted about a father whose children were saying No about Easter Sunday I don't think the reaction here would have been much different. You are looking for a gender issue where there is none.

If the woman concerned has asked the sons and they have said No that should be the end of it. Religious services are for those who want to be there or have to be there because they are too young to be left behind.

If I was a devout liberal (or political atheist) and my mum was a member of the labour party or ukip party and wanted me to attend one of their conferences and participate by getting up in front of others, also having others assume I agree with the policies by virtue of my attendance I don't think I would, even if it was mothers day.

religion, politics etc have an effect on peoples principles and I think it is quite selfish of the mother to think her wishes should override her sons principles/how they feel comfortable.
she is looking for attention and to show other people that she is loved. otherwise doing it all at home would be enough for her.

ergo the mother is a selfish bint!

Andrew, I have no idea if gender politics is an issue in the OP's friend's problem.

But I do take issue with anyone telling a woman that unless what she asks for is something that benefits the child, the teen or the whole family, then she is using emotional blackmail. That it is wrong for a woman to ask for what she wants to make her happy. Or even have a conversation about it.

Would you rather your DP put up and shut up, or actually have a conversation about how she feels about your decisions?

DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go

has she no feet of her own? Why does her DH have more of a say over something that he doesnt actually practise himself than her, the person who wants it to happen?

I think it would be a nice thing to do if that would make her happy, and as an atheist, I might encourage my kids to go with their grandma at christmas if we lived closer and it would make her happy.

After all, we got to church to see friends and family get married. I'd put it down to being considerate.

Dione I regard this particular request put in that way coming from either parent to teens of either gender as emotional blackmail. In this instance the parent is the mother and the teens are male. So what? I would take the same view of a father leaning on teen daughters about Easter Sunday and I hope you would too.

Andrew, I regard any man telling any woman that to ask her family for something that would make her happy is emotional blackmail, as patriarchal bullshit.

My view is that if something is important it should at least be discussed. Be that the mother's request that they attend church on Mother's day, or the teen's or father's request that she miss church sometimes to do something that is important to them.

Well, I'm a woman - have been all my life, fully endowed with all the relevant cis equipment - and I'm feeling well dodgy about it too.

I talk a lot about what'll make me happy. Sometimes I rant and rave about it, quite loudly. Sure, context is all. But someone who's been weeping about her near-adult offspring not taking part in a kiddifest? Not buying it.

Forcing other people to do stuff for you to show they love you, which is actually what she's trying to do, is a bit off. And long-term it misfires. Believe me.

"Andrew, I regard any man telling any woman that to ask her family for something that would make her happy is emotional blackmail, as patriarcHal bullshit"

Why are you finding it so hard to grasp that the genders are immaterial- the same argument would apply if it was a man emotionally blackmailing his children into going to church?

Maybe if you read the thread you would see the issue? Just a thought.