to think my friend's children should go to church?

[ClassicTron]

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

As the OP vanished several pages back, I'm with the pp who suggested the OP is the friend and has disappeared because she didn't get a unanimous vote for insisting the children go to church to appease their mum.

From what I remember of children's groups at church (very long time ago), they were generally for youngish children (primary school age and below) rather than anything that would have appealed to teenagers.

I can't imagine teenagers, especially boys, willingly joining a group of children several years younger than they are to present flowers to their mother in church. I imagine that they might find it excruciatingly embarrassing, as I would have done at their age. If the OP's friend can't understand that then she has little understanding of how most teenagers tick.

Why are some people still saying that their Dad should have a word with them? He is not a church goer and presumably isn't planning on going to this service either, so it would be very hypocritical. Teens aren't daft either. They would point that one out pretty sharpish, I'm sure. He would be very unwise to start a battle he could not win.

The OP states that the friend is thinking of not coming to church next week because her children won't be there. Well I doubt that will do HER any harm to take a rare Sunday off to spend with her family, hopefully doing something they can all get enjoyment from rather than trying to force them to attend a boring church service.

A pub lunch would be infinitely more attractive, I would have thought.

... and yes, I agree it is possible that the OP is in fact the friend.

Topseyt
Many churches have separate group(s) for younger teenagers (i.e. under 18).

I'd really like it if you did some revision ds1

Emotional blackmail ?

This doesn't bode well for me might just stick with ordering them to do things

YABU I was raised in a religious family and as the years have gone by i have resented more and more that i was one made to go in the first place and secondly the guilt trip religious family use on you to attend and put up with religious activities you want nothing to do with. It's her children's choice if they want to attend church with their mother or not and it's their personal one.

In our pre-wedding chats which you have to endure with the vicar, the issue of Mothering Sunday came up. He explained that he had to write the sermon, but felt at best ambivalent about the service. In the church would be mothers without children, children without mothers, women who desperately wanted to be a mother.... he felt that a celebration of motherhood was by it's very nature exclusive. And the church should be inclusive.

FWIW, on the facts in the OP - though the OP seems to be conspicuous by their absence - I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the sons to take part in the service. My children are told that they can choose whether to go to church when they hit secondary school age - but they are also aware that at times they may be expected to attend church.

Ummm... please ignore the stray apostrophe

he must know that his action of giving them the option of staying at home from a very young age has enabled this situation to occur that they don't realise they are upsetting their mother by refusing to go to soemthing that matters to her
WTH?! That really is so so wrong I can't stand the emotional blackmaila and manipulation that some parents think is appropriate to use on children who -believe it or not- have minds of their own!

Ragwort Yes, myself and many others think it does come close to child abuse, please see above.

I speak fom experience when i recently had to report a historic sexual abuse that took place at church when i was a young teen. My religious close family, as soon as they found out it involved the church, treated me with suspicion, told me it wasn't a big deal there was no need to tell the police about it, this is after nspcc told me i should to protect other children!
And after all that.. my dad still asked me to go to a religious event at the church where it happened.

"I'd really like it if you came along" is emotional blackmail.

A woman asking for something that she wants from her sons and husband is emotional blackmail? Is it just because she's a church goer that she shouldn't ask or because women in general shouldn't ask things from their male folk?

I do think saying 'do this to make me happy' can be extremely emotionally blackmailing. Speaking as a daughter. Depends how it's said. Frankly if the woman's weeping about it, sounds as if she's not exactly going to say it in the desired and assertive way which would also give them the option of saying good god no way.

No Dione this is not about gender. It would be the same if it was a father or if it concerned daughters.

It's not like homework or revision or a share of the household chores. They are for the benefit of the child or teen or of the whole family. Pressure to go to a religion service which a teen doesn't want to go to is for the benefit of the parent and only the parent, and that
is why it is emotional blackmail.

I remember Welby saying that when his children decided to stop going to church in their teens he accepted it without comment. He was right.

Mothers Day isn't a made up Americanism. It was traditionally the one day, when children who were in service were allowed home to see their mothers.

According to Wikki Mother's Day does originate from America, in the early 1900s

There was a poster downthread who was, in my opinion, emotionally blackmailed to attend political events with her father. So not just mothers and not just Church. Apologies to anyone hoping to make this a "it's only Christians and Chistianith who get treated like this" thread.

Hak - are you referring to me? In no way was I emotionally blackmailed to attend political events, I have tried to make that clear. I am quite miffed that you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding my comments.

I always respect your posts - even if I don't always agree with them - but I was trying to give an explanation of how sometimes it is just nice to do something for your parent. I went to these political events as an adult.

Please do not misconstrue what I am trying (perhaps not very clearly) to say.

So a woman can only ask something of her family if it is to their benefit but if she makes a request for something for herself, because she would really like it, it's emotional blackmail Andrew?

Mothering Sunday

Dione A parent who uses those tactics to get a teenager to a place of worship who does not want to go is using emotional blackmail: that's all I am saying. I am sure there are other activities to which the same would apply but this thread is not about them. And it really is no use trying to bring gender into this one. It applies to both parents, and also to GPs, uncles, aunts, you name it. Once they are old enough to be left alone if they don't want to go, leave it to them, and don't press them.

Bottom line is the woman is deeply hurt and crying on a friend. If not doing something simple upset my husband, mother or children then I'd suck it up and go and I'm willing to bet most people would to. When we love people we do things for them, that's just how it is.

I have to say, at the risk of causing a row, this doesn't sound much like a religious event to me. More of a CofE tradition that could just as easily embarress teens in a parish hall. I know plenty of devout (and not very devout) Catholics and this sort of thing is pretty alien to them. In other words, I'm not sure the teens would be dragged to a religious event, more a social event in a church. Apologies to all those who are offended by my view.

I bet if it was a mother in law wanting her grandchildren to go to church with her this thread would have taken a completely different course!

Andrew, you said it's ok to ask if it's for the benefit of the child or the family. So now it's ok if it's for the benefit of the person asking, as long as it's not church or something else that you deem wrong.

I can't disagree more. It's ok for mums (since that's what this thread is about) to ask their family to do something that would make them happy. And it's ok for people to say no. It is not emotional blackmail, it's a simple request.

It is most certainly emotional blackmail if it's something you know they are opposed to on principle. And if you say "oh, but it mother's day" and cry.

It's only blackmail if there's a threat involved. Like if you don't go I'll stop loving/feeding you. Or if they have a phobia or trauma related to churches/the church. It doesn't seem like that from the OP...