to think my friend's children should go to church?

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Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

I went back to read the OP again. (And noticed OP has not been back.)

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

If OP's friend is doing all this, when does she have time for her DCs?

And as for the public nature of the service, not many teens would want to go up in front of everybody. And it's that part that the friend seems to be most invested in. That's the bit I think the friend is really being unreasonable with.

They do right in not going if they don't want too. Because if they go once she'll expect them to go every year.

I sat through a service when dc2 had a sleepover in church (a scout thing) it bored me to tears. I wasn't and am not remotely religious. I felt so hypocritical sitting there listening to things I had no interest or belief in.

Never again!

They could easily give her flowers in the comfort of their own home but no, she wants them presented to her in church just because everyone else's children do it.

Dear me!

Annunziata
I would hope that my children could understand that supporting their friends and family with their views is equally as important as having and defending their own opinions.

So you'd be happy to attend a satanist ritual/service (or whatever they've got) if it was important to a friend, despite it being against your Christian beliefs?

I have a very "whatever" attitude towards religion now so wouldn't mind going to church as a one off for someone, but as a teenager I had very strong anti-religious beliefs and would have seen it as a betrayal going to church.

I've been here since page 3 and we are beginning to recycle the arguments now so I'm out.

Facinating discussion but I hold with my original position that the teens should be allowed to chose for themselves.

I will be looking around though to see if I can spot the other non believers next time I'm in church though

As I said, if it is just "can't be arsed" then they should go. If they have made an active decision to leave the church, then of course they shouldn't. And the many people saying they should just underlines the absurdly privileged position Christianity holds in this country, and the extraordinary blindness to that privilege many Christians seem to have.

So you'd be happy to attend a satanist ritual/service (or whatever they've got) if it was important to a friend, despite it being against your Christian beliefs?

I wouldn't be friends with a satanist though, and if my children were satanists they probably wouldn't talk to me at all! If it is so important to you not to be a certain religion, you surely can't be close to someone who is?

Now if you ask a sensible question like would I go to a Muslim or Hindu ceremony, I'd be a bit anxious about going, but if I thought my friend would get a lot out of me going then I would do my best to go with them.

If they felt as strongly as you Patricia, I think their mum would know about it, no? I would still feel very sad they that had rejected something very important to me, but I wouldn't hope so much that they would come.

Esmum07 - thanks for the clarification

Whether it's religious event or not, you'd think the teens could do one thing for their mother on Mothers Day. But it's their choice.....

My childhood priest has been charged with sexual abuse of girls under 11. Girls who attended the school across the playground from his house. During school hours.

Church cannot be compared to anything else - certainly not bingo.

It is a building dedicated to the worship of a blood thirsty galactic overlord. His image (while masquerading as his own son, often depicted as a bloody corpse) is over every wall. People chant, sing, kneel, close their eyes and try to telepathically communicate with him/her/it. There are silly costumes and (in some cases) a truly sick ritual that involves people believing they are turning rice paper and wine into flesh, and then swallowing it.

The question should not be why wouldn't the boys want to go - but why on earth they would?

Doesn't matter if it's to please your mum, whether it's important to her, would make her happy. No mum (or anyone else) has the slightest bloody business emotionally manipulating anyone into setting foot in a church unless they expressly want to.

And no, I don't agree that if it's just that they can't be arsed they should go. Why should they? They can give flowers, gifts, kisses and appreciation at home. No need to have to attend the local HQ of a belief system that means nothing to them.

It is up to the boys if they want to go into a church. Their reasons are their business. If that's disappointing to mum, oh well.

I think she's wet. . Ds has occasionally forgotten to get me Mothers Day stuff. I wouldn't dream of bloody crying about it. He still loves me regardless of Mothers Day. I think your friend needs to grow up a bit, and stop being so needy about her sons.

Her crying doesn't make it your business or does it make her right. You shouldn't force religion on anyone. Just because the church is important to her doesn't mean the whole family has to go/believe. It's her choice.

I often used to get dragged along to church by my parents. It was more because of a sense of obligation my Dad felt about going rather than that either of them really liked it or was religious. He grew up in a family who were mostly very staunch church goers and I think it just took many years before he became comfortable with the notion that it actually wasn't necessary and he could stop.

I was bored to tears by church, and was relieved that by my teenage years my parents too had virtually stopped going. I consider myself agnostic. I rarely attend church services apart from weddings (which I see as supporting bride & groom), and funerals (respects to deceased and support for the family and friends left behind).

I've never pushed church on my children. I am happy with just a card and whatever they decide on Mother's Day,

The OP's friend is absolutely entitled to her beliefs, but crying on other people's shoulders about this seems very self-indulgent and OTT. If she shows such behaviour to teenagers she is more likely to drive them further away than get what she wants out of them.

If their Dad doesn't go to these things either then how can he put his foot down and force his sons? It would be hypocritical - a point which would be lost on very few teenagers.

Oh dear god, church or no church, my darling affectionate daughters would die of mortification if expected to take part in a Sweet Ritual involving public flowers.

I have to wonder if it is actually yourself that you are talking about here as "the friend"?... No offense meant if I'm completely wrong!

This thread is a little f**ked up. When did going to church a couple times a year just to make your Mum happy turn into such a ridiculous debate?! Jeeze, I'd do loads of things I'm probably slightly principled about if it made my Mum happy. She knows I don't believe a word of any religion and I know that me joining her at church a couple of times a year will make her so happy, she'll secretly cry several times through the service. In fact, if anything, it's those moments that would make me want to believe in a God.

No one should be forced into religion. No child. No adult. Religion is a personal choice and should always be that. Just because you gave birth to someone does not give you the right to control them in this way. Ever

Going to church once a year, just because you realise it's important to your Mum, is not being forced into religion.

Yes it is. I wouldn't expect DS to do something that is in my religion just to make me happy. It wouldn't make me happy.

Luckily my religion States it's immoral to do things like that.

E'er people are getting quite deep about this . The teens probably are not thinking about the religious aspect but just how bored they'll be ! I bet they don't care about being in a church and it's just the fact that it'll be an hour or two doing something they don't want to.

I agree OP, the dad should insist on them going on Mothers day because that's what the MOTHER wants.

And it's so RUDE to mock people for having a faith. Disgusting really.

Why would it make her happy for them to go under sufference?

It's quite simple. It all depends on why they don't go to church. If it's can't be arsed, then yes, they should go to please their mother. If it's a thoughtful, considered decision, then they shouldn't.

If anything is rude, bereal7 it's the continual attempt to impose gags on views you don't like by asserting your own (imagined) moral superiority. "You shouldn't say XYZ because it's RUDE and DISGUSTING". People have gotten away with this for far too long. Adults are entitled to say what they like about religion and religious practices without being shamed into shutting up by the likes of you.

If you can come up with a reasoned argument why certain opinions should not be aired, then fine. Your trumped up moral outrage will not do the job, I'm afraid. I bet you don't take the same tack when discussing the political beliefs of others, by the way.

And the motivations of the teens are totally irrelevant. They are ENTITLED not to go to church for any reason. If you are going to assert the view that they need a reason that's acceptable to you, Hakuylut (ideological, rather than laziness) then does that extend to all instances of church going? What about the 12 year old who can't be arsed to go to Sunday services because he'd rather play X Box? He should be forced unless he can come up with a logically sound argument against his parents' religion of choice?

No one should ever be compelled to attend a church service. Not ever. And not for any reason. Their reasons, frankly, are their business.

I think it would be a nice gesture if the teens went. It's no skin off their nose and would make their mum happy.

But compelled/forced to go by their father? No. Church attendance is NOT the same as any other social occasion, and there's no sensible comparison that can be made.

I thought OP wasn't asking about enforcing religion on DC.

She was asking about teens joining in something they would not normally to, to please their mother on Mothering Sunday - ie once a year.

I don't see there's anything wrong whatsoever in pleasing your mother on Mothering Sunday, even if it means going to something that bores you for about an hour.

"don't see there's anything wrong whatsoever in pleasing your mother on Mothering Sunday, even if it means going to something that bores you for about an hour."

Neither do I. And if that's why they don't want to go, then they are little gits and their dad should have firm words. If, however, they don't go to church because they have thought about it and come to a decision about their beliefs, or lack of thm, then they should not go.

I was forced to church as a teen. It was beyond awful. I'm sure there are things they can do together that everyone will be happy about including the mum. Why is she so set on only doing church on Mother's Day?