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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think my friend's children should go to church?

491 replies

ClassicTron · 09/03/2015 11:30

Church is very important to my friend she is employed by them and does loads of voluntary stuff on top. There's not much she would prioritise over being in church on a Sunday morning.

Her Dc are now teens but haven't been to church since they were around 7/8. They didn't want to and although she would have liked them to keep going occasionally, she said it was their choice. Her DH is not a church goer.

Most of the time she's fine with this but there are certain occasions when she would badly like them to be there. Her birthday, Christmas.... and Mother's Day.

The church makes a big fuss of mother's day and she runs several children's groups so is very much one of the organisers for this. She has never managed to persuade her children to participate and has told me that she won't be going to church next Sunday because it makes her so sad when everyone else is being given flowers (provided by the church) by their children and hers aren't there. Another child will always present her with flowers, so she's not without but she is very upset by her own children not being there.

AIBU to think that for this day only, her DH should put his foot down and tell his sons they need to go because it will make their mum happy?

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 09/03/2015 19:12

YABU

CactusAnnie · 09/03/2015 19:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Marshy · 09/03/2015 19:17

Newrule for me it's about something which could be said to be about a matter if principle and asking someone to do something which conflicts with that.

None of the other examples given really fit that description

Hakluyt · 09/03/2015 19:18

If it was just going I would be inclined to agree. But she wants them to take part in the flower giving thing. Which will, I am sure, have a religious content.

inabeautifulplace · 09/03/2015 19:19

I couldn't agree with the last sentence of the OP. Her DH should not be putting his foot down and insisting. Explaining that it's very important to their mother is accurate and still gives them choice. Obviously this is a controversial issue, which explains why people are projecting their own experiences onto this scenario. I agree entirely that this would be the same if their mother was in an am dram production every year.

ThreeMoreDaysTillFriday · 09/03/2015 19:20

It's different than going to bingo because it is asking someone to do something which is against their beliefs. You can't use that example unless you are saying that going to church is a pastime or hobby? I've never heard of a devout bingo player Hmm

Would it be fair for me to actively stop my teenage DD from going to church if she wanted to because I'm not religious and don't have any desire for her to be? No. So why is ok to try and force a teenager who doesn't want to go to go because the Mum wants them to? IMO the same answer applies.

Oldraver · 09/03/2015 19:22

I feel sorry for her kids her swanning off to church on Mothers Day participating in others celebration

cingolimama · 09/03/2015 19:22

Marshy, just to reiterate what others have said... no, you don't have to "believe" to attend church. Some come for the music, because it's an hour of contemplation in their busy lives, because they're troubled, because they're curious etc. Plus a lot of regular church goers, at times, doubt their own faith. None are turned away. All are welcome.

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 19:23

Sitting in church doesn't mean accepting that system though Annie.

LynetteScavo · 09/03/2015 19:23

There are some occasions that attending mass is non-negotiable for DC. Weddings, funerals, confirmations, first communions Christmas etc.

I pick my battles though. If it's that important to your friend she needs to get her DH on her side. If she is crying about it to you, then she needs to communicate her unhappiness to her family. I bet they don't realise how much she wants to be handed flowers.

Newrule · 09/03/2015 19:24

She is only asking them to come once or twice for a specific reason. To hand her some floors or just do something with her that is important to her and a part of who she is. She is not trying to convert them. In fact the mum clearly respects their choice to not be religious or part of her religion.

This has nothing to do with the nature of religion, whether a system or not. This is a mother wishing for a token attendance at an event.

When will it be okay for them to attend this system? At her funeral? Give me my roses whilst I alive, thank you.

Slongette · 09/03/2015 19:25

Sorry to ask - but since when has Mothering Sunday been a religious thing?

Doublehelixtwist · 09/03/2015 19:26

A fairer comparison would be attending a BNP rally or fox hunting or asking a vegetarian to eat meat with their mum for "just one day".

Supporting the church for many people feels wrong and profoundly uncomfortable. It is a source of comfort yes for some but has a pretty strong history (if not present in some categories) of sexism, appalling treatment of unmarried mothers, homophobia, childhood abuse in care homes and suppression of the masses.

expatinscotland · 09/03/2015 19:27

Wouldn't force mine to go to any wedding, funeral, christening, etc. Because I was forced as a child.

If they're old enough to stay on their own for an hour or so and don't want to go, I'd leave them be.

I find weddings, christening and pretty much all church boring beyond belief.

I had to go to one recently for DD. I brought a book and ducked out as soon as she had done her little part, grateful for the excuse that DH really did have to go in to work and DS cannot be left on his own nor brought to church as he has autism and ADHD.

PatriciaHolm · 09/03/2015 19:27

"Going to bingo doesn't involve an entire system of ontological belief about the truth of the universe and its origins, attached to a huge structure of morality, judgement and repressive control of sexuality, with a centuries-old history of persecution and prejudice. Unless I'm missing something?"

This. With lots of added knobs on. For some people, this stuff is really really important, and the concept of just pootling along to take part in a little Mothers Day service is anathema. There is zero chance I would have done it as a teen. It goes against everything I think about the Church and organised religion. It's vastly vastly different to sucking up a morning at football or singing or bingo and doesn't mean for one minute that I don't believe in being nice to people, or thinking about their feelings; but this, this thing, I could not do.

Hakluyt · 09/03/2015 19:28

Sitting in church doesn't. But taking part in the Mothering Sunday flower thing does.

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 19:32

No it doesn't, Hakluyt, because there is nothing religious about giving your mum flowers in church.

inabeautifulplace · 09/03/2015 19:32

"A fairer comparison would be attending a BNP rally or fox hunting or asking a vegetarian to eat meat"

What? Interesting that you are comparing Christians to Fascists though...

PatriciaHolm · 09/03/2015 19:34

But the Church have made it into part of their ceremonies, so are imbuing the whole thing with a religious air. If it's not religious, why doe the OP's friend have so much care for it? Surely it would be as valued to her if it happened at home in private? But it doesn't, it has to happen in public in Church for it to be meaningful to her.

Newrule · 09/03/2015 19:37

Handing your mum flowers at a ceremony is what? Seriously.

Why would a fairer comparison be BNP? Do you suppose attend such a simple inoffensive activity/ceremony is like attending a political rally where abhorrent policies are set out? Clearly it is your hatred for and low opinion of religion that is driving your response.

I'm not supporting this person's religion but the mother's wish seems a simple one.

Esmum07 · 09/03/2015 19:38

Slongette. Mothering Sunday IS a religious celebration. In the UK it's celebrated on the same day as Mother's Day but Mothering Sunday is a Christian celebration. The idea was started back in the 16th Century, so beats Mother's Day in time, and is celebrated on the fourth Sunday after Lent. People would return to their 'Mother' church for a special service. Later, people working in apprenticeships or in service would be given the day off to go home to their own parish and their 'real' mothers as well as their 'Mother Church'. On the way home they would pick flowers from the hedgerows to give to mum when they got home. Hence the tradition of giving mum flowers on Mothering Sunday and mums and other women getting a posy in Church on the day.

It started lapsing in the early 20th century and was then revived, commercialised and now we have Mother's Day.

So Mothering Sunday is a religious festival. Whether you should force your children to attend is another matter but it is a beautiful service and I'd hope DS would want to attend on that day, like Christmas. If he didn't I wouldn't be upset - his choice. I'd still go though and remember my mum. Hope your friend still goes OP - if she enjoys it. I'm sure she'll get spoiled on Mother's Day and she can enjoy the traditional Mothering Sunday all to herself.

Annunziata · 09/03/2015 19:39

She cares for it (I am guessing) because it's a nice ceremony in a place that is very important to her, with all her friends around her getting flowers from their children, and feeling part of something. It's impossible to do that at home in private.

Giving your mum flowers in church doesn't make you part of the church at all.

DioneTheDiabolist · 09/03/2015 19:41

Nooyear, the mother has not forced her children to go to church. They stopped years ago and she hasn't forced them.

As for her doing a bit of atheism for her children, what does that mean?Confused

PatriciaHolm · 09/03/2015 19:42

"Giving your mum flowers in church doesn't make you part of the church at all."

Well, for me, especially as a teen, it would feel very much as if it did. And I would have HATED that. It would be against everything I believed in. I would not have done it, and would not do so now.

KingOfTheBongo · 09/03/2015 19:47

I don't think YABU. It's selfish of her children.

On the other hand, I think there are already too many people whose atheism stems from a teenage aversion to church/religion rather than objective thinking, so maybe it's for the best in the long run.