to think small children shouldn't take up Tube seats?

[MrsRupertCampbellBlack]

genuinely interested as I'm currently six months pregnant with my first child and I know this is going to be me in a couple of years!

But I keep seeing mums at rush hour on really busy Tubes sitting with a small child next to them taking up another seat. Surely the nicer/politer/more sensible thing to do would be for the mum to have the child on her lap and free up a seat for someone else?

So why has the parent put the toddler there in the seat?

Depends on the age of the child. Dont parents have to start paying for their child when they're 5, so if children are expected to pay a fare then as far as I'm concerned. They're entitled to a seat.

Children don't pay a fare on the tube til they are 12. And OAPs don't pay either, so I am not sure the who pays a fare criteria really works to be honest.

Well luckily you don't need to south east because someone else who doesn't like to see a small child in a crowded train getting pushed, smothered, struggling to hold on and in danger of getting separated from their parent will already have done so. so yay.

southeast you win the prize for the most fucking stupid thing written on this thread.

Southeast - I wonder if I've ever offended you. As when I've been offered a seat I always gave it to my small children, as they needed it more than me.

I don't see why Kelly.

I wouldn't give up my seat for a toddler either. However I would give up my seat for a mum or dad wrangling a toddler so that they could sit with the toddler safely on their lap.

I think that's absolutely reasonable.

If the parent then chose to stand whilst the toddler sat, I'd wonder what was up with them that they thought their precious pwincess was more entitled to the seat than they were!

I'd probably roll my eyes a bit :)

YABU.
I cannot believe how selfish people are, children are fully entitled to a seat. One poster mentioned that they felt it was unfair that parents travelled during rush hour! How inconsiderate of these parents! (I am being sarcastic). You don't know anything about about their circumstances as to why they are traveling at that time.

Seriously people are so self entitled these days thinking they are more worthy of a seat than a child. Just to clarify I'm not referring to give up a seat for an elderly passenger/heavily pregnant woman or less abled person.

I cannot believe how selfish people are

Me neither! It's incredibly selfish to think your children require a seat over and above an adult standing next to them!

...and if the rail and bus companies did the decent thing and only sold tickets for available seats this argument would be null and void.

On the tube system I don't think that really applies. Tube trains are designed to take a large number of standing adults - just not really standing children.

*If the parent then chose to stand whilst the toddler sat, I'd wonder what was up with them that they thought their precious pwincess was more entitled to the seat than they were!

I'd probably roll my eyes a bit smile*

Entitled? Not necessarily, if I would prefer to stand rather than sit with a wiggily child on my lap, that's my lookout. Dd2, in particular, had a skinny, bony, arse and was an actual pain to have sitting on you.

I cannot believe how selfish people are

You can spin this both ways, though, can't you?

Why should a child's decision that they need a seat override my decision that I need a seat?

And by not encouraging able-bodied children from about the age of 8 or so (that's the age from which I was expected to offer up a seat if there were an adult standing) to offer seats up, you are teaching them exactly that selfishness that you are criticising in adults.

What did the Jesuits say? Give me the boy & I'll give you the man, or something like that...

I think my children deserve a seat more than I do. I don't want them trampled on or jostled and another dead pwincess if the bus slams on the breaks or crashes. If that made someone roll their eyes, I would give not a gram of fuck.

You must find life continually disappointing, Up.

Why should a child's decision that they need a seat override my decision that I need a seat?

Well, if the child is in the seat before you, then theres your answer up. I wouldn't be offering my childs seat to you.

And by not encouraging able-bodied children from about the age of 8 or so

The general point always applies - give up your seat for somebody who needs it more than you do. Most 8 year olds cannot firmly hold the bar or strap.

I think the attitude of many Jesuits was that given the boy, they could do what they liked because children should be seen and not heard and nobody believes them anyway. Times change. We are more safety conscious now, and we are less taken with the idea that some sectors of society are second class citizens.

Of course there may be a situation where it is appropriate for an 8 year old to give up their seat. However, the idea that this should be the default any time an adult decides they would like to sit down is just a bit silly really and has nothing to do with manners.

Similarly, I don't expect any random man to give up his seat for me just because I am a woman.

Yes upthechimney you can spin it both ways. Yes I agree that children should be taught manners and giving up a seat is a good thing for them to learn. My gripe really is this expectancy that they should and that an adult is more entitled to the seat. You don't know if the child has already walked for ages beforehand and is tired and needs to sit. My niece 5yrs loves to stand and always does, I always give up my seat for someone who needs it more than me.

Yes, I see this now and then. I would never give up my seat for a toddler and no mum or dad has asked me to...yet. Typical child-centric, let them do what they want behaviour common these days.

you do know that toddlers are aged about 2, right? Can these people stand safely?

Everyone asserting children should stand have given no reason other than that's the way it was in 1870.

I still don't see why an 8 year old should give up aseat just because someone older is standing?

My dh and I always argue about this - I say that our 4 year old should sit on one of our laps if the tube is busy, and he says that he is just as entitled to a seat as anyone else. DS1 hates sitting on our laps on the tube though, so it can be a battle! I also ensure that DS2's pushchair isn't taking up the folded seats spaces when it's busy. I hate seeing pushchairs taking up two or three folded seat spaces. When DS1 was 2ish, I used to get him out of the pushchair, fold it, put it under the folding seats and sit him on my lap if it was busy, so me, him and the pushchair were all only taking up one seat space. People would still avoid the folding seat next to me above the pushchair though, at least until it was really busy.

Hmm this is interesting because whenever my dc & I have used the tube and/or train we are always offered seats. I usually let the dc sit and decline a seat but some passengers don't take no for an answer, even in rush hour. I would offer my seat to a child because it's safer for them to sit. Children need more protecting than an adult.

my child is too big to sit on my knees but too small to stand to I let him sit and am the one standing. All happy!

My entitled children are actually pretty likely to give up their seats to someone who needs it. But that is partly because they have been brought up to think of themselves as just as much rights, and just as much responsibilities as anyone else.

I wonder what people here would have done when my supposedly fit and healthy DH had to ask for a seat before he collapsed on the tube - what happened was that people were very willing to offer him a seat (and offered the rest of us seats too, which we mainly turned down).