to think small children shouldn't take up Tube seats?

[MrsRupertCampbellBlack]

genuinely interested as I'm currently six months pregnant with my first child and I know this is going to be me in a couple of years!

But I keep seeing mums at rush hour on really busy Tubes sitting with a small child next to them taking up another seat. Surely the nicer/politer/more sensible thing to do would be for the mum to have the child on her lap and free up a seat for someone else?

I was really saddened yesterday when I travelled on a full bus and an elderly man with 2 sticks got on and no-one offered him a seat. I got up and gave him mine and the woman next to me moaned at me as she had to get up to let me and my shopping bags out (I was sitting at the window). There were many young people, some in school uniform sitting on seats, and many able bodied adults.

Maybe I'm harking back to the 'good old days' although I'm only in my 40s but when I was a teenager there is no way I or any of my friends would have sat and let a frail elderly man stand. Neither would most adults. It's all about respect for people most in need and I can't believe the sense of entitlement some people have today.

And I also think that small children should sit on a parent's lap if an adult or elderly person is standing. With an older child it should really be about who needs the seat most, but I see many toddlers sitting on seats who could free up a seat for someone else.

Maybe I'm harking back to the 'good old days' although I'm only in my 40s but when I was a teenager there is no way I or any of my friends would have sat and let a frail elderly man stand. Neither would most adults. It's all about respect for people most in need and I can't believe the sense of entitlement some people have today

This

I had a temporary disability & chronic pain for about 18 months. It was clear I was impaired (the sling and bandages gave it away). But I was never offered a seat on my regular bus by an able-bodied younger person from teen to all those mummies sitting by their prams texting. If I asked for a seat they scowled or laughed at me. I was offered a seat once by an elderly gentleman none too steady himself. I will always remember him.

The rest -- I have little but contempt for them.

'I was really saddened yesterday when I travelled on a full bus and an elderly man with 2 sticks got on and no-one offered him a seat.'

I temporarily despair of humans when I witness things like that.

I often travel on the tube in rush hour with my small son. We are going to the theatre (west end) where he starts work after a long day at school, so I much prefer him to sit down and have a bit of a rest. My point is that you never know the circumstances of what other people choose to do.

Young children should get seats before just about anybody except disabled people. You can get flung around on the tubes and kids have not got the strength to hold on and balance. It a safety issue.

kelly Instead of resorting to insults why don't you try to say something vaguely intelligent?

I prefer my kids (7&3) to sit on the tube but I'd make them move for someone in more need. They're too big to comfortably sit on my lap on a wee seat so I'd probably stand and let them sit if it came to it.

Yeah well I personally think it's pretty stupid to think that a young child should stand for someone who needs a seat, ahead of an able bodied adult.

Why on earth the vulnerable people should have to slug it out while the fit & healthy sit there is beyond me. If you need a seat ask adults who look like they can stand, not little kids.

I suppose though if someone tells a small 8yo to get up then they aren't likely to argue, while a 20 year old man might. I can only assume that's the reasoning.

So I'm standing on the train and my 2 children (5 and 7) are sharing a seat. There are a whole stack of other people on the train, most of whom are not going to be elderly / pregnant / disabled / unable to stand. Yet the people who should turf out are the two little ones.

You see I just can't understand that approach at all. It almost seems spiteful to me, TBH.

Children need a seat just as much, if not more than an adult!

1 seat per "party" in my opinion.

So either parent has seat and child stands, child has seat and parent stands or two kids squish on or child sits on parents lap.

That seems fair to me. If an adult forgoes a seat so their child can sit down then why the Hell should that child give up the seat for another adult?

Maybe I'm harking back to the 'good old days' although I'm only in my 40s but when I was a teenager there is no way I or any of my friends would have sat and let a frail elderly man stand. Neither would most adults. It's all about respect for people most in need and I can't believe the sense of entitlement some people have today.

no one in the pro-child-seat camp would say otherwise. Most (everyone?) has said that the pecking order should be from those least able to stand to those most able to stand, so those likely to fall should be given priority. I have told my 6 year old many times to get up for an elderly person.

in fact, I think it's people's irrational children-always-stand that leads to the scenario where people don't get up for an elderly person.

This isn't about elderly people tho! Obviously the elderly take priority over kids for a seat.

Maybe I'm harking back to the 'good old days' although I'm only in my 40s but when I was a teenager there is no way I or any of my friends would have sat and let a frail elderly man stand. Neither would most adults. It's all about respect for people most in need and I can't believe the sense of entitlement some people have today.

But having grown up in London - in the 60s and 70s children did not give up their seats for adults. My mother told me in the 40s and 50s they did.

In my experience solitary teens will stand if asked (and you have a reason), as will quite a range of other people. Unfortunately the best at offering seats seem to be visitors from overseas, especially South America.

In my experience solitary teens will stand if asked

And in my experience, they won't. Indeed, some of the more obnoxious will actually push in front of you to get on to bus or train in too many instances.

If I were to come on here and call such ill-mannered children "chavs" or the "children of chavs" there would be uproar. But, you know, if the cap fits ...

My experience of traveling on the tube is that people always offer seats If someone needs one. A frail lady got on quite recently and a young lad jumped up, the person sitting next to him also got up so her husband could sit. I was offered a seat immediately on a busy train with dd5. I think Londoners are really courteous on the tube ime.

The old man on the bus example above, you see I'd have said something to the people sitting, not aggressive but 'this man needs a seat or he's going to fall'. I think that's one of the differences with the past people don't. But then I'm not from London and don't have to hear about stabbings all the time in my local area

YANBU. I let my son have his own seat if the bus isn't full (we don't use the tube) but no way would I let him if other people were having to stand

The old man on the bus example above, you see I'd have said something to the people sitting, not aggressive but 'this man needs a seat or he's going to fall'. I think that's one of the differences with the past people don't. But then I'm not from London and don't have to hear about stabbings all the time in my local area

I'd say something too, but I have never seen it. The only time I have seen something like this is when an older person couldn't make it near a seat because the tube was so crowded. Someone did yell "this man needs a seat, make way for him", and everyone was fine.

oh, and stabbings aren't really a daily activity in London.

I was on the tube the other day strap hanging with an elderly gentlemen, I said to him, "I'm sure someone will stand up for you soon" and he said "people are usually very kind'. The man sat next to us, shot up and gave him his seat apologising for not seeing hime. I think a lot of the time people are decent and kind, they just zone out.
After reading this thread it seems to me that the majority of us think tots should be on laps, children should get a seat, but if someone wobbly gets on, they are offered a seat. Seems pretty decent to me!

Not quite the same, as where we live there isn't a tube network, but I regularly get the bus with DD who is two, she hates sitting on my lap, so I generally sit her on the chair and I'll stand if the bus is busy.

It depends on whether the child is a paying customer - if he isn't, then he should be sitting on the parent's lap. That's how it works with planes too - for under 2's, you don't pay the ticket, but the child is not assigned his own seat and MUST sit on the parent's lap.

You can still choose to purchase an adult ticket, and then it's your right to have the child sit on their own seat, whatever age they are. That's what I do when I'm traveling by train; instead of getting a free child ticket, I purchase an adult one, so that my daughter (even though she's only 2) has the right to have her own seat.

I suppose though if someone tells a small 8yo to get up then they aren't likely to argue, while a 20 year old man might. I can only assume that's the reasoning.

Not if the 8 year old is with his mum or dad.

I wouldn't allow my kids to sit when there are adults without one. My 9 year old can sit on my lap, my 12 year old can stand.

A 12 year old is just as capable of standing up as a normal adult (not elderly, not frail, no physical problems). I would never tell a 12 year old to stand up to give their seat to another adult.

Elderly people in London don't pay bus fares either and they are given seats.