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Original poster

Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

335 replies

kissmethere · 03/03/2015 13:38

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

OP posts:
Feckeggblue · 03/03/2015 16:51

Great post jelly

EmmaLL25 · 03/03/2015 16:52

I thought the advice not to drink was blanket advice because lots of people don't understand units and would drink too much. So NHS give advice to lowest common denominator if you see what I mean.
I had a half glass of fizz at NY in third trimester and stopped because of the heart burn!
I drank non-alcoholic beer instead.

BreakingDad77 · 03/03/2015 16:52

Jelly dinosaur nailed it

honeycrest · 03/03/2015 17:02

Even in the DM article the woman says she frequently got drunk and drank beer as well as spirits during a drinking session. So I don't know why the headline of the article implies that damage is being done by small amounts. Typical DM rabble rousing.

In all the studies done, there has not been a single documented case of FAS in children of mothers who drank less than 14 drinks a week. I take that as evidence enough that low alcohol consumption during pregnancy causes no harm.

It's the people who get worked up about a pregnant woman having a single glass of wine that have 'one brain cell' IMO. Many of these people don't seem to have an issue with smoking which has been shown to have ill effects even in moderation.

PacificDogwood · 03/03/2015 17:10

Thank goodness for jelly Thanks

We don't know what the 'safe' level of alcohol in pregnancy is, so in the usual manner of blanket advice being at the lowest common denominator it is "Don't drink any alcohol at all".
There is a world of difference between harmful alcohol consumption in pregnancy and a level that is safe, problem is we don't know where that is exactly.
So, yes, it is about risk assessment and in what an individual is comfortable with.
In order not to have to worry about alcohol in pregnancy, don't drink. Fine.

I toasted the bride and groom at my brother's wedding with champagne and would do so again.

I get actually quite worried about the fear-filled society we live in: use your common sense, accept that most things have an inherent risk and enjoy life - which surprisingly can be done with no or next to no alcohol Wink
But stop the panic-inducing woman-blaming poorly-informed hateful campaigns that also seem to suggest that is you do everything 'right' all will be well. Not so.

NakedFamilyFightClub · 03/03/2015 17:12

Great post Jelly

squoosh · 03/03/2015 17:14

I too am chiming in with a 'great post Jelly'.

Original poster
kissmethere · 03/03/2015 17:18

Ok so from my point of view I can see I've come across as judgemental and unsympathetic, I can see that. I do actually have a lot of mums in aquaintance that I've spent time with who consume a shocking amount of alcohol, and weed, and cigarettes whilst pregnant. Have to say it's not easy to sit there and not think wtf! I'm usually the only one there, not pg at the mo, who is swigging from a bottle of water. Our kids play together and this is how the pass the time.
Maybe I should have more sympathy but it's hard. And yes I did consume alcohol, unaware of my early pregnancy, but I had the will power to stop. They don't or I wonder if they just don't care.
The conversation I had this morning was with regards to a friends daughter who is in early stages of pregnancy. I had to drop a book at their house and the reek of weed coming from her bedroom would knock you out. It upset me and a friend who was with me mentioned it. Yes not my business but I'm thinking that is so shit. And yes I have judged her for it. Hoping she will grow up and realise.

OP posts:
PacificDogwood · 03/03/2015 17:23

kissme, I think the kind of culture that you are describing in which large amounts of regular alcohol and other drugs are so normalised, is what the advice 'no alcohol in pregnancy' is aimed at: simple (or simplistic), easy to understand, and non-negotiable.
In reality it is much more complex.
And people keep drinking/smoking for so many reasons - it is much easier to recognise certain behaviours as dangerous and potentially harmful than to do something about it IME.

CaptainAnkles · 03/03/2015 17:24

Very well said Jelly

alteredbeast · 03/03/2015 17:36

Jelly put it much better than I did. Great post.

I do think we are becoming more and more fearful as a society. Less able to trust our instincts and just enjoy life.

velvetspoon · 03/03/2015 17:38

My eldest DC is 16. Whilst pregnant I drank 6-7 units a week every week. At that time 7 units was the recommended max. Before I was pregnant (and indeed before I knew I was pregnant) I was drinking 10-14 units a night, at least 4 times a week.

I'm an intelligent woman with a degree and professional qualifications. I also at that time lived a fairly hard drinking partying lifestyle, which in the absence of a partner or family, I wasn't able to give up. Although I was able to reduce my drinking, and did.

My pregnancy wasn't planned. I didn't know I was pregnant til several months in, went to few ante natal appts as I couldn't take time off work BUT at none of the ones I did attend was I ever asked about what I drank, nor told not to drink.

I'm not saying what I did was right, but it was in line with advice at the time. I didn't have time to read 100s of baby books, spend hours on research. I followed what the health professionals treating me said.

I appreciate times have changed. If I was pregnant now would I drink? Probably. My lifestyle now is very different to how it was then, I drink 1-2 units in a week, often less, and I'm sure after the first stage of pregnancy I'd continue to do so.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 03/03/2015 17:42

OP, can I apologise for finishing my post by saying 'what a stupid thread', that wasn't really called for. It was borne of frustration as I was attempting to make a roux sauce at the time, which I'm not very good at - turns out it is not improved by irate MNetting at the same time...

I think the situation you describe is quite different to the 'occasional glass of wine' scenario. The thing about drinking in pregnancy threads is that they tend to bring out the 'why take the risk of half a sip? You wouldn't put wine in the baby's BOTTLE would you?' posters who are just a special breed of stupid that, to quote my favourite ever post on here from years ago, makes me want to high five them. In the face. With a chair. But that sounds different to the viewpoint you are expressing.

PacificDogwood · 03/03/2015 17:47

I may have to steal the highfiving-with-chair quote for future use Grin

There's the opposite problem as well: the affluent, well-educated drinker who reckons because it's nothing but the nicest Merlot half a bottle every night is ok… Hmm

Unfortunately, it is often those who are quite easily worried already and who want to do everything right who get v upset at half a glass of wine taken once a month or summat.

Public health advice is notoriously difficult to get right and then to communicate well.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 03/03/2015 17:48

And thanks for everyone who said I did a good post, it made up for the roux sauce failure Smile

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 03/03/2015 17:50

Pacific it's the implication that if you do it all right then it will go well that upsets me - it certainly made me torture myself after my mc to work out what I'd done wrong (no, I hadn't drunk a drop whilst ttc actually, unlike in my successful pregnancies when I unknowingly knocked back a load of cocktails before realising - oops!). There are no guarantees, however many guidelines you follow.

OddFodd · 03/03/2015 17:52

Jelly I applaud you.

PacificDogwood · 03/03/2015 17:52

Oh yes, me too, Jelly.
I had MMCs x4 when I did everything 'right', didn't give a shit, followed common sense - nought made any difference.
Thankfully I also had 4 successful pregnancies, but I am well familiar with how generalised 'advice' can drive you round the bend. Unnecessarily so.

PacificDogwood · 03/03/2015 17:53

I will now have to go and google 'roux sauce' Blush

Osmiornica · 03/03/2015 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seaoflove · 03/03/2015 17:57

Re. smoking in pregnancy

Doctors don't always recommend giving up because the increased stress can also cause issues.

This myth is so incredibly pervasive but it's complete bollocks, peddled by women who are finding it hard to give up and need an excuse to carry on.

dejarderoncar · 03/03/2015 18:05

If you have even one small glass of wine it must be because you expect the alcohol in it to have a certain effect on you, to relax you or whatever, surely, or why bother? And presumably if you expect it to have an effect on you, perhaps a 65 kilo woman, it most likely has an effect on the foetus which is a small percentage of your body weight? I really don`t understand the UK alcohol culture which pervades every level of society and is ruthlessly defended.

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 03/03/2015 18:14

The effect of that glass is largely psychological - it signals that you're in 'unwind mode' or 'celebration mode'. It is also metabolized by the liver before it reaches the baby.

Original poster
kissmethere · 03/03/2015 18:25

Jelly that's fine. I was watching the clock for school pick up, shopping etc and my typing wasn't coming out correctly!

OP posts:
MooMaid · 03/03/2015 18:26

I have a glass of wine or a Tia Maria and coke because I like the taste. I'm yet tiki find a non alcoholic drink that exactly mirrors these tastes. I'm due any day now had a small spritzer once and didn't like the effect it had on me so haven't bothered since but I don't believe that drink will have affected the baby. In fact, prior to finding out I was pregnant we'd gone away for the weekend and I'd drunk a lot! I worried about it at first but I was probably 3/4 weeks pregnant and had no idea. I think the message is getting through, some people just choose to ignore it