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Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

335 replies

kissmethere · 03/03/2015 13:38

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

OP posts:
Number3cometome · 04/03/2015 20:12

Do what you like, you have the facts so be adult and make your own judgement. If you decide not to drink (like I have) that's up to you, if you carry on, again that's up to you.
No one can say exactly what is or isn't safe, just like with sugars, fats, medicines etc.
So best just to be sensible and do what you think is right

If you cannot 'not' have a drink, even a small one, then that's a different issue to 'wanting' a small drink because you feel like it and judge it to not be a risk.

I am sure everyone who is having a small drink isn't dependent, they just fancy it.

Let's not go round in circles for days over personal choice. It's not illegal, and it doesn't make you a bad mother.

Just accept that you do not know the risks but are educated enough to know that the risks if any are small as far as we know.

Number3cometome · 04/03/2015 20:13

Do what you like, you have the facts so be adult and make your own judgement. If you decide not to drink (like I have) that's up to you, if you carry on, again that's up to you.
No one can say exactly what is or isn't safe, just like with sugars, fats, medicines etc.
So best just to be sensible and do what you think is right

If you cannot 'not' have a drink, even a small one, then that's a different issue to 'wanting' a small drink because you feel like it and judge it to not be a risk.

I am sure everyone who is having a small drink isn't dependent, they just fancy it.

Let's not go round in circles for days over personal choice. It's not illegal, and it doesn't make you a bad mother.

Just accept that you do not know the risks but are educated enough to know that the risks if any are small as far as we know.

Davsmum · 04/03/2015 21:15

Runningupthathill Breastfeeding is not the topic here. Alcohol during pregnancy and effects on a developing foetus is nothing to do with breastfeeding. Why are you attacking me with an anecdote that is nothing to do with what I have said?
Decaff so that is you NOT responding to me? If you cannot see the logic in what I have said then it is you who is not listening. Your post was extremely patronising and childish and yet you complain about mine?
Are you saying you know there is no risk, when even specialists will not say for sure there are none? That is all I have been saying, that no one can be sure there is no risk, but we do know alcohol is a poison. Take the risk but don't claim there definitely is not one.

anothernumberone · 04/03/2015 21:17

Davsmum the not drinking recommendation from RCOG continues into bf so it is relevant as it is a blanket catch all recommendation.

sparechange · 04/03/2015 21:31

Good grief, Davsmum
How many times does it have to be pointed out to you.
No one is saying there is 'no risk' because it isn't possible to say there is 'no risk' about anything. Including tap water and yoghurt and all the other examples numerous people have taken the time and trouble to point out to you.

But just like there is a minimal risk of harm with yoghurt, there is compelling evidence to show there is minimal risk of harm with small quantities of alcohol.
But you would rather argue with your own shadow than actually admit that there is evidence which backs this up, and your position is based on dogma and some weird gut feeling you have, more than any evidence.

countessmarkyabitch · 04/03/2015 21:35

I don't really see the point in taking unnecessary risks with your unborn child.

DecaffTastesWeird · 04/03/2015 21:37

what sparechange said.

SadieSimmons · 05/03/2015 10:33

Avoid alcohol in pregnancy as 'it's toxic'.

Well it is practically impossible to avoid ingesting ethanol as it is present in a wide range of foods and drinks - care to revise your statement Davsmum? Else there's a huge list of products to also add to the list of things to avoid when pregnant many of which have already been listed on this thread such as baked goods, fruit, fruit juices, soft drinks and yoghurt.

How much ethanol is 'toxic' - how much ethanol do you think a pregnant woman will have consumed over 40 weeks even if she has abstained from drinking known alcoholic beverages? I'm willing to bet there are some women out there who have consumed more ethanol due to their diet over the 40 week period than those that have had the odd glass of wine. And both will have children unaffected by the amounts of ethanol but your toxic comment could have a bigger impact on the wine drinker.

Anxiety has also been shown to be detrimental to mother and baby as well as ignorant, self righteous people.

Skiptonlass · 08/03/2015 14:49

This whole issue is incredibly emotive. It makes me very uncomfortable. I'm a scientist (genetics of development and cancer, so I probably have quite a good insight into this.) this is a long post, sorry for that.

What I dislike about this debate is the fact that it feels like the thin end of the wedge in terms of the pregnant woman being public property. Go too far down that road and you end up with a situation like that in parts of the USA, where women are wombs on legs with no rights of their own. Women are generally sensible and just need information.

On the other hand, there is no doubt that a. Alcohol is a teratogen and b. Many more of us than we'd think have complex relationships with alcohol. For that reason alone it's vital that women are given advice based on solid data.
Ok so now the problem with getting that data - firstly, you can't experiment on pregnant women and so you have to rely on retrospective data gathering. Secondly, people do not report alcohol intake accurately. Thirdly, people underestimate intake - one unit is about 80ml of wine.

So of course what we want to know is, "yes I know don't overdo it, but is it ok to have a glass of wine with good now and again?' And the answer to that is, we just don't know. Everyone metabolises ethanol differently. Some people have one or no copies of the alcohol dehydrogenase gene, for example. If you're a regular drinker the liver ramps up enzyme production too, then there's an interplay with body mass, fat stores, blah blah...So we could line up everyone on this thread and give them two big glasses of vino and you'd have some gently snoring on the sofa and some feeling fine. That's one confounding factor. Then there's the fact that the foetus is vulnerable differently at different stages and it's not just a gradient from more vulnerable to less. There are various processes that will be affected more and we honestly don't know when they are. There's also a VAST spectrum of damage known as fasd which is pretty much impossible to tease out from so many other syndromes.

its also worth remembering that the foetal liver is not fully working in the womb. The foetus will excrete ethanol into the amniotic fluid and thus be exposed to it for much longer than the mother. So a couple of units for me is a bath in it for babs.

It's a very, very difficult issue for public health to call on. The truth is that alcohol does cause damage, but the threshold and timing is impossible to call. What's fine for one woman isn't for another.

Personally, I think the latest advice is good. Cut down if you're ttc. If you think you might be knocked up, abstain. Don't drink at all in the first trimester. Drink nothing or very small amounts from then on. And be aware of what a unit is. A 175ml glass of wine is almost two. Half a glass of champers at a wedding at twenty weeks with food and plenty of water is not going to harm your baby. Wine twice a week might.

I also feel very strongly that demonising women does no good. There needs to be real and immediate help for women who have problems with alcohol.

information and free choice - not coercion and damnation!

2blessed · 30/04/2015 05:31

Great post @skiptonlass.
I believe that everyone processes alcohol differently. I know that a small glass of wine does affect me slightly, so in turn will affect the baby. My reasoning for abstaining during pregnancy. I didn't need a study to work that out.
Such an emotive subject.

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