Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

[kissmethere]

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

You're right, Davsmum, a ten year old could follow your logic. Because ten year olds don't tend to understand complexities and subtle nuances. They often have the same simplistic black and white view of the world as you (no offence to ten year olds). When you demonise the small risks that personally offend you, regardless of evidence, you feed into a misogynistic and judgemental culture. A ten year old could follow your logic to the conclusion reached in countries which seek to severely restrict and repress women's freedoms and to undermine her independence. Countries where women are currently serving decades in prison for having miscarriages. Because the foetus is valued so far above the mother, that women are criminalised for losing their pregnancies. Should we scrutinize women who have suffered miscarriages - have they been seen with a drink? We're they taking medication? Were they overweight? Did they prioritize their own selfish needs above the baby? What should the punishment be?

When you create a culture of condemnation and fear - labelling pregnant women as 'stupid' and 'selfish', when you let prejudice and ignorance triumph over truth and evidence, you seek to undermine women's rights and their intelligence. Also,calling them stupid and selfish is not an effective way to get them to engage with public health messages.

It IS black and white. It is not a simplistic view.
A woman does not have the right to inflict damage on her unborn child under the banner of 'womens rights'
The baby is not valued above a mother - but it is valued above her choice to take risks with it's health.
Drinking in pregnancy is not about independence.
The risks do not personally offend me. I am not offended, I am saddened that any woman would have such a warped view of what women's rights and her independence allows her to do.

I don't think there should be a punishment for ignorance. The punishment is suffered by the child who did not have any choice at all.

'A woman does not have the right to inflict damage on her unborn child under the banner of 'womens rights''

The point people are making is that moderate drinking has not been proven to inflict damage.

Davsmum what you're saying is still incorrect. I have the right to do whatever I want (apart from the illegal) regardless of my unborn baby. My baby is bit valued legally or otherwise above my choices. My baby has no rights. I have them. It's my right to drink alcohol whenever I want. I may not choose to, but I have the right to .

My point is that drinking a single glass of wine is not a risk and there is no peer reviewed evidence that suggests it could be. Therefore a woman has the right to decide to drink it if she wants. However, every pregnant woman does take risks that expose her foetus to potential harm, no matter how cautious and careful she is. And it worries me that people pick and choose various behaviours to judge and condemn, without any evidence to back it up, because this DOES harm women and their babies.

HootyMcTooty great post.

The odd glass of wine may be okay but one or two glasses of red wine every other day...seems excessive in pregnancy. That's push the normal 14 unit limit given that 1 unit is only 75ml of standard (12%) red wine. Illustrates the point perfectly.

But the professionals disagree with that squoosh They say that they cannot say it does not, so many go with zero alcohol.
If they cannot confirm for sure it does not - then there is the risk.

The limits are there to minimise risk - not to say it is safe.

Davsmum what you're saying is still incorrect. I have the right to do whatever I want (apart from the illegal) regardless of my unborn baby

I said...Under the banner of women's rights. Yes, you can do what you want - I totally agree. Whether it is right is another matter.

I don't understand what you mean by women's rights. It's a human right for me to be able to eat and drink whatever I want, whenever I want. Not a woman's right.

Did that programme last night even state the likely amount a pregnant woman would need to drink in order for FAS to result?

I don't think there should be a punishment for ignorance

That's lucky Davsmum...

Actually Davsmum, I'm pretty sure the experts all agree that 1 - 2 units a week definitely does not do any harm. What they don't know is the point at which harm starts. Hence the guidelines being just 1 - 2 units per week.

I love how this bit gets ignored by all the froth-at-the-mouth types. The midwife telling you i'ts probably better to abstain is only doing so because she doesn't think you can understand the difference between 1 - 2 units and 10 units.

What I want to know is where are all these super judgemental types in real life? I've yet to have someone tell me I'm poisoning my child as I order a glass of wine. I clearly live in a much less judgemental (or much more silently judgemental) part of the world. The only question I've ever been asked is whether I know coke has caffeine in it!

The odd glass of wine may be okay but one or two glasses of red wine every other day...seems excessive in pregnancy

to YOU. Based on what? Stop being so judgemental!

Zoiks - it is up to the woman what she drinks, up to society to support her and up to the NHS to issue the guidelines.

"What I want to know is where are all these super judgemental types in real life?"

Never happened to me but a friend was once REFUSED PARMESAN CHEESE WITH HER SALAD when she was pregnant - the server said she couldn't have it as parmesan is made with unpasteurized milk. Friend pointed out that parmesan is so dry and salty she could eat it until it came out her ears without getting food poisoning, and frankly if she was going to be worried about anything, it'd be the salad leaves.

Ugh leedy. How infantilising!

No one has ever commented on my wine drinking but someone in a cafe did ask if I was sure I didn't want my eggs cooked hard. I can't say she was judgemental though.

I was refused low dose aspirin in Boots as I am pregnant - I have since made a complaint.

The program was confusing last night as they were mixing up miscarriage risks and FAS. Also equating alcholism during and after pregnancy with light/mod drinking.

As others have mentioned in the same way people appear to have to be told to not blend fast food for their babies, those same people need to be told to not drink.

and hence why the guidance come out.

What do you mean I can't blend up a Happy Meal for DS?!

redtoothbrush

What if I order the carrots instead of chips?

You must remove the bag first though, and they don't cancel the burger out