Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

[kissmethere]

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

What about the rest of the time when your contraception might fail? You might drink whilst not knowing you were pregnant. How hard is that to get your head around? You are being selfish in wanting to drink just in case you have an unborn baby you don't know about.

That's a risk. Its a small one, but its still a risk.

Where does it end? You draw the line of acceptable risk at one point. Others draw it at another point.

How hard is that to get your head around?

No!! That's the point. There has never been a documented case of a baby having FAS from their mother having drunk a "tiny" amount of alcohol

According to the programme on TV last night - there IS evidence.
feckeggblue - I did not make it up - I watched the programme last night that said there is definite evidence.

Well, I think since YANA has engaged so coherently with all the arguments put forward on this thread so far, has offered peer reviewed compelling scientific evidence to back up her carefully reasoned opinion and has argued her case with such attention to detail and with so much understanding of all the complex issues and empathy towards pregnant women then she has clearly won this thread and all that is left for the rest of us to do us to offer her a sincerely meant and richly deserved high five.

A glass of wine isn't a selfish need

It's not hard to get my head round, it just sounds like hysterical crap coming from someone a bit dim, to be honest.

Davsmum- there was no evidence presented in that programme. I watched it too. It was poorly evidenced rubbish

Oh, and because the telly said so - and we all know that documentaries on ITV are DEFINITELY RIGHT JUST LIKE EVERYTHING YOU READ IN THE DAILY MAIL IS ALSO TRUE - then obviously, we should disregard all the studies suggesting that light drinking does no harm and really, we should probably just give up thinking for ourselves altogether. After all, we are only stupid women, aren't we?

Feckeggblue If you are pregnant - then taking something that is a poison ( which alcohol is!) and toxic - IS selfish.
It is not hysterical crap to point that out.
If you decide to dit it - then fine, that is your choice, but don't start telling people its perfectly fine.
The only safe amount is zero. To argue otherwise is dim.

I can prove, unequivocally, that only women who use stairs damage their unborn babies by falling down the stairs. Ergo, there is no safe limit for using stairs. I now consider all pregnant women who use the stairs reckless risk takers who lack the moral clarity to put their babies first. It's only 9 months, ffs, take the lift!

Feckeggblue
To ingest a poison,..which alcohol is - and also toxic, when pregnant IS selfish.
It is not hysterical crap to point that out. It is a fact. You may choose to do it anyway - which is your choice, but to argue it is ok is totally dim.

The level of journalism in that tv programme last night was astonishing. The trouble is, because its on tv people believe it more than if they read the same thing in the newspaper, because they have the misguided belief that television is more reliable and honest and if its on the tellybox it might have be thoroughly researched and evidence produced vetted and accessed as being in no way flawed.

The point of the programme was to scare the bejesus out of women not to educate them and enable them to make an informed decision. Trouble is there are a few numpties that don't understand that.

Sorry - The post deleted itself and I had to retype,..then it appeared again!!

Redtoothbrush They had experts and professionals on that prgramme. It was not journalists making it up!
It DID educate - and if it scares women then good,..they need scaring if they are going to put their babies at risk.

I will make a TV program to educate pregnant women on the dangers of using the stairs. I will use experts to prove not using the stairs is the only safe option.

Davsmum, I presume you are with me?

I don't need poorly presented programmes to scare me out of having a small glass of wine when pregnant. I'm a fairly intelligent person and the risk was minuscule. No child will have FAS on that amount of alcohol.

Call it selfish if you want, but I had a small glass while watching the tv on a Saturday night. I looked forward to it!

That programme on ITV last night was excruciating. I know you should never look to that particular channel for informative documentaries but even still. Especially when she was interviewing the consultant who was explaining the reasoning behind the guidelines given by the NHS. She was basically just kept bleating 'but whyyyyyyyyy?'.

She made the Loose Women panel look like Paxman.

I find these threads, and the one-eyed, simplistic, moronic opinions, so frustrating.

I'm just grateful that the women in my life - friends, family etc - aren't this dim.

Oooo they had experts! That means it had all the credibility in the world then!

Jesus Christ!

Let me tell you about the Cochrane Collaboration. There was this dude called Archie Cochrane who realised that research is rarely reliable and frequently flawed in its methodology meaning it can be intentionally or unintentionally biased for various reasons. He called for research to be reviewed. So they set up this group which compared studies and looked to see if their claimed findings actually were what the 'evidence' pointed to. By doing this they hoped to help people identify bollocks research.

You see lots of research and evidence is bollocks. Total and utter bollocks. Done by very educated and respected individuals. But still bollocks.

The trouble is, even the way Cochrane does things, it can still draw conclusions that are bollocks. Less likely to be bollocks, but still not true.

Ben Goldacre is your friend.

Davsmum, almost everything has some potential danger. Even getting out of bed in the morning carries risk as while walking around you could fall over and harm the baby.

You're using very emotive language by calling alcohol 'toxic'. But we could use that language about lots of things that we routinely do during pregnancy. Eating unhealthy food could fall into this category, breathing polluted air, exposing the body to chemicals in the form of personal care products.

But in the end, the risks of all of these things, when used sensibly and in moderation are negligible. So we do the sensible thing, weigh up the risk and make our decisions accordingly. I've read Expecting Better and the studies she references show quite clearly that very small amounts of alcohol have no discernible effect. I made my decisions based on this evidence.

I will make a TV program to educate pregnant women on the dangers of using the stairs. I will use experts to prove not using the stairs is the only safe option

That is a ridiculous comparison! Walking about and using stairs is normal to everyday life. It is a normal risk. Putting a poison into your body is not necessary and is a choice.
You are being too ridiculous.
Alcohol, whether you like the fact or not, is the most dangerous drug used today. Just because it is used socially, is legal and is accepted by most does not change that.
I am all for freedom of choice where drugs re concerned but to take any and claim it will do no harm is stupid. Defending something because you want it - also stupid.
Putting an unborn child at risk - worse than stupid.

"made the Loose Women panel look like Paxman." Wah ha ha! That's so true. Itv is so trashy

Davsmun Explain how one glass of wine puts your baby at risk? I will be my pension you would not be able to find a study that says it does. Don't drink when pregnant, fine. But don't be so insulting to those who do.

FFS - Comparing normal tasks like getting out of bed and using stairs to taking a drug,..yes, a toxic drug, beggars belief.
If you can't see the difference you must be many brain cells short.

Alcohol is not something you need to take. Its a choice. There are things you cannot control so comparing those things to something you choose to do is mad.

Don't drink when you aren't pregnant then. Just in case you might be.

And don't drink alcohol after you've had a baby too. Because that's selfish as well.

Laurie
I ended up with pages and pages of Expecting Better photographed and saved on my phone, to show to the various idiots I encountered why eating prawns/ham sandwhiches/having a glass of wine wasn't going to do me or my baby any harm.

I would still get the 'but why would you risk it?' before they got back into their cars, to drive on motorways, to go back to their houses with stairs and electrical appliances that they leave on overnight.

It is like the good old 'leave them in the car or wake them up to walk them over the forecourt and into the shop when I pay for petrol' debates

No matter how many times people are presented with cold hard facts and statistics, some idiots will always fail to understand actual risk, vs their crappy attempts to self-calculate risk based on their gut feeling.
I can only assume they spent their entire school maths classes asleep, or reading about conspiracy theories, but I find life is easier if you avoid these dimwits.

Davsmum
What about driving on a motorway? Is that something you think a pregnant women should or shouldn't do?