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Original poster

Drinking in pregnancy. The message still isn't registering

335 replies

kissmethere · 03/03/2015 13:38

Just read an article about the effects of alcohol in pregnancy. Children left with lasting effects of their mothers drinking habits and the mothers are saying they had no idea this would happen. Seriously?
I drank Guinness during my first pregnancy 18 years ago, very small amount at the end, adhering to the old wives tale that it was full of iron and malt. I knew back then that there was no way spirits or beer or loads of Guinness or much more should be consumed as it was bad for the baby. That was 18 years ago! I knew a woman when I was growing up who's son had permanent bone and facial damage as his mum was an alcoholic and fell over when she was pregnant with him, they had to operate on him while in the womb.
My point is how is it that some women still think alcohol in pregnancy is ok or claim they didn't know what damage it can do to the baby. What help are they getting if they truly know they have an addiction?

OP posts:
LaurieMarlow · 04/03/2015 10:49

Davsmum, it's not a ridiculous comparison.

However, the mistake you're making here is to treat all alcohol use the same. In very large quantities, you are right. Alcohol is a dangerous drug, is toxic, is a poison, etc, etc. In small amounts, alcohol is none of those things, even has some health benefits (well, wine does) and is, in many cultures, a normal part of everyday life.

None of us can 100% guarantee that alcohol will 'do no harm' in pregnancy. However, we also can't guarantee that walking around will do no harm.

We weigh up the risks and make our decisions.

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 04/03/2015 10:50

Some people on this thread remind me of the lad who, when he saw me drinking a spritzer at seven months pregnant, asked 'Aren't you worried you'll make the baby die if you drink that?'.

Davsmum · 04/03/2015 10:50

Nicknacky

Are we talking about ONE glass of wine during a whole pregnancy? I thought we were talking about moderate drinking under the guidelines of a few units a week?
One woman may drink several with no harm - another may drink the same with harm to her baby.
YOU don't know which woman you are. It is a risk.
You and others would choose to take that risk and claim it is not a risk. THAT is what is stupid.
I find it insulting that people are prepared to defend their choice when they have no clue whether their baby will be the unlucky one.

It is absolute common sense to say you don't know if what you are drinking will ham your baby. I am not saying it definitely will - I am saying it is a risk a responsible mother would not take.
Spot the bloody difference!

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 10:50

sparecharge driving on a motorway is technically safer than driving on an A road. Also you are more likely to have an accident within 2 miles of your home than anywhere else.

By this logic because I live near Manchester, I should only do circuits of the M25 to be safe whilst driving.

ChoochiWhoo · 04/03/2015 10:50

I think the whole 'I am woman not incubator' mentality, is useful in some instances but in less intelligent individuals becomes a convenient cover for very irresponsible, dangerous behaviour at the expense of something that has no legal rights (which is fair enough) , also the shame factor has gone , when I was expecting ds1 it was you are pregnant, so no alcohol or smoking, no its less of that more 'can we support you stopping/cutting down...I wonder if many expectant mothers dont grasp the seriousness.

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 10:52

What are the risks of FAS compared with the risks of having a baby over the age of 40?

Davsmum · 04/03/2015 10:54

sparechange FFS stop comparing everyday tasks with ingesting alcohol.

LaurieMarlow As an individual - you have no idea what amount will affect your baby. The effects of alcohol have been measured on a foetus. It has a direct effect. It is something you don't need to do.
I am all for choice, as I have said. So long as that choice affects you and not a baby.

squoosh · 04/03/2015 10:56

I disagree that the shame factor has gone. If anything the shame factor continues to increase, especially when it comes to smoking. I remember some celebrity or other was photographed smoking in her car and released an official statement apologising for it. To be honest I can't even remember the last time I saw a pregnant woman smoking but obviously lots do behind closed doors.

Nicknacky · 04/03/2015 10:56

Davsmum I suggest you calm down, stop implying posters are stupid and try have a sensible discussion about an interesting subject.

One drink during pregnancy or one drink once a week etc is NOT going to cause FAS. There is a risk in any activity we do but in this case the risk is minuscule. There is even a midwife on this thread who stated she had a drink occasionally!

Davsmum · 04/03/2015 10:56

You can't compare the risk with any other risk. It should be dealt with on its own.
It doesn't make it better that it may be 'less' risk than something else.

Amazing how people justify their choices with idiotic comparisons.

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 10:58

And its amazing that as soon as you have an 'expert' you don't question things and accept what they are saying blindly without thinking.

Davsmum · 04/03/2015 10:59

Nicknacky

The patronising 'calm down' comment - Typical! I am happily calm.
Making a point you disagree with does not mean I am not perfectly calm.

Nicknacky · 04/03/2015 11:00

Christ, that programme was so anti alcohol that at one point the "expert" said it was safer to take heroin ffs.

That I would judge and call irresponsible.

Nicknacky · 04/03/2015 11:01

Davsmum call it patronising or not. So is calling posters stupid and saying they will not be responsible mothers if they have a glass of Pinot.

LaurieMarlow · 04/03/2015 11:01

Davsmum where is the evidence that drinking tiny amounts will harm 'some' babies?

sparechange · 04/03/2015 11:02

Davsmum
Sorry but this hysteria just underlines you have zero comprehension of calculating risks.
Once you have assessed something as being an 'everyday task', the risk doesn't matter? Or doesn't count? Or you don't think anyone should make any adjustments from their everyday routine to accommodate the risk?

I can only assume you also have a very unhealthy attitude towards alcohol given you ranting about it being a toxic poison.
Vinegar, toothpaste, deodrant all contain things which are hugely toxic and poisonous when ingested in large quantities. But again, I'm not sure anyone is calling for those to be avoided when pregnant.

squoosh · 04/03/2015 11:03

The 'alcohol is more dangerous than heroin' comment was completely meaningless without any context. It would have been more helpful if they'd said how much alcohol was more dangerous than heroin rather than implying that drinking a glass of wine was more irresponsible than shooting up smack. But of course, that wouldn't have been as sensationalist.............

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 11:04

Davsmum, have you read anything by Ben Goldacre? Or Margaret McCartney?

Please do.

sparechange · 04/03/2015 11:05

Red
Exactly. No one sits down and works out the statistically safest journey from A to B while they are pregnant. And I'm quite sure more pregnant women are involved in car accidents every year than are at risk of FAS.
But by Davsmum logic, we shouldn't be so selfish as to make that journey by car to Aunty Mavis's for the weekend, let alone go and meet friends.
It's only 9 months, normal social activities can wait.

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 11:05

Don't clean your house whilst pregnant.

mousmous · 04/03/2015 11:06

even if you don't drink alkohol you are ingesting some every day.
I like my fruit ripe, but don't drink. no one feels bad for eating fruit...

mousmous · 04/03/2015 11:08

and heroin is given to women during childbirth as pain relief...

RedToothBrush · 04/03/2015 11:10

sparechange, pregnant women are statistically more likely to have an accident whilst driving than women who are not pregnant.

sparechange · 04/03/2015 11:12

Davsmum
Given what red has just told us, can you confirm you support a ban on pregnant women driving?
And that you abstained from driving while pregnant? Because after all, it's only 9 months...

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 04/03/2015 11:19

As mentioned previously on this thread, a couple of years ago recommendations were released advising pregnant women to avoid household cleaning products, make up, moisturizer, shower gel, food and drink in plastic packaging and new furniture amongst a host of other things. The reasoning was identical to the reasoning behind the advice to avoid alcohol - it exposes the pregnant woman to potentially harmful toxins and we don't know what the effect on the foetus could be. There is no proven safe limit, therefore pregnant women should avoid them altogether. I'd be interested in Davsmum's take on these recommendations?

I find it interesting that the prohibitions that would inconvenience people other than the pregnant woman - she would be exempt from housework, she wouldn't look as decorative, food manufacturers might have to invest time and money coming up with alternative packaging - they don't meet with quite the same vitriol and condemnation. No one guilts the pregnant lady cleaning the bathroom. No one shames her for applying make up or showering. No one judges big companies for using potentially toxic materials. But when the prohibition simply requires the pregnant woman to curtail her own enjoyment and it won't inconvenience someone else - then she's a selfish bitch for risking her unborn child.