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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think Tory voters have no moral compass and empathy

204 replies

Izzywizzyletsgetbizzy · 02/03/2015 20:32

Firstly I'm not labour I follow politics but can not think of a party I really relate to.

Anyway every article I read the book I'm reading has made me come to that conclusion. I'm currently reading a book by Owen Jones which has really opened my eyes.

The fact that anyone with below £10 mil in their account can vote for them is beyond me.

But why would anyone vote for a party that bashes the disabled the poor and anyone outside of their Etonian elite. The only people that would want a party and policies like this have to have no empathy.

OP posts:
OTheHugeManatee · 03/03/2015 10:05

While we're on the subject of a moral compass, I'm intrigued by that other thread about Labour MP David Lammy's assertion that stealing from Fortnum & Mason is less bad than stealing from a cornershop.

Because, y'know, stealing is OK as long as you do it from poshos Hmm

lem73 · 03/03/2015 10:06

Wow Manatee that's a brilliant explanation for this time of the morning. You've clearly had your second cup of coffee.
Of course there are Tory tax dodgers. That's why I don't believe in sweeping generalisations like the ones that have been made on this thread. Sadly I think Parliament is full of people on the make for themselves. My df had a lot of contact with Malcolm Rifkind when he was Secretary of State for Scotland and despite their political differences, he had a lot of respect for him. I was utterly gobsmacked to see that video of him last week.

TheFairyCaravan · 03/03/2015 10:07

When your policies are killing people Manatee you have no moral compass!

OTheHugeManatee · 03/03/2015 10:07

I wish there was an alternative to the Tories. Labour seem to be lacking in ideas other than to soak the rich even further.

There's UKIP or the Greens? Grin

Springisontheway · 03/03/2015 10:08

Why particularly pick out the Tories for having no moral compass?

I think everyone wants to live in a just, fair and prosperous society. They simply disagree about the best way to get there.

Frankly, none of the parties really fit my views. But, I don't see the Tories as pantomime villains.

BertieBrabinger · 03/03/2015 10:09

Isn't it sad that the only real alternative parties are full of nutjobs dreaming of their own peculiar and unworkable Utopias? When there are so many reasonable, balanced opinions on here?
How about a Mumsnet party? I reckon we could win a few seats!

OTheHugeManatee · 03/03/2015 10:11

I wrote:

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to take an extreme example of welfare bureaucracy reform having an appalling effect on an individual, and compare this sneeringly to my explanation above of the philosophy behind shrinking the state.

TheFairyCaravan wrote: When your policies are killing people Manatee you have no moral compass!

Smile

I repeat:

I've no doubt there are instances of great suffering caused by changes in this bureaucracy and am not trying to claim that the current government is perfect. What I am trying to do though is show two different philosophies, and offer a different perspective on the one that the OP wrote off as the simple absence of a moral compass.

YoungGirlGrowingOld · 03/03/2015 10:11

When your policies are killing people you have no moral compass!

I am sure David Kelly's family would agree wholeheartedly.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 03/03/2015 10:14

When your policies are killing people Manatee you have no moral compass!

Government can't prevent suffering everywhere. It's not their role to even try.

YoungGirlGrowingOld · 03/03/2015 10:19

bertie I have often thought the same. When politicians of any stripe speak these days, it's as though they are addressing an audience of 10 year olds. There is no debate as such - just an exchange of platitudes and a tickbox approach to buzzwords - hard working families, welfare dependency, privatisation etc - with no rigour or analysis.

If you want a decent debate with intelligent folks it's MN all the way!

editthis · 03/03/2015 10:20

from a right-wing philosophical standpoint, it's respectful of individual autonomy, fundamentally hopeful about human potential - but founded in a different vision of what humans are and what human society is capable of.

Well said, Manatee. Much better put than I attempted up thread. I don't think enough people know this stuff.

lem73 · 03/03/2015 10:21

How many innocent civilians were killed in the illegal Iraq war? Millions of people still voted Labour in again despite it being clear by the next General election that Blair had lied in Parliament about WMDs. They voted for him because it suited their wallets at the time m. Where was their moral compass? Blair was never called to account for his lies.

OTheHugeManatee · 03/03/2015 10:21

Again, talking of policies killing people, it's pretty much accepted that the rise of ISIL is firmly rooted in Labour's Iraq war, which was rooted in the bizarre belief that we could somehow use guns and missiles to impose liberal democracy on a region with no tradition of liberal democracy. Which I suppose you could argue is an extreme example of lefties trying to use the state to impose the good society from the top down.

The consequence of those policies is now killing people, in great numbers.

My point here is not to start a tit for tat about whose policies have killed more people and in what context. The Labour government under Blair took decisions they believed to be right, however catastrophic they turned out to be. Similarly, the current government is taking decisions it believes to be right. Those decisions may be having consequences for some individuals that are pretty catastrophic. Big decisions always have fallout, and part of the job of a politician is to take them anyway, if they are believed to be right. Running around shouting about a lack of empathy is, frankly, a bit juvenile - it's not a politician's job - any politician's - to be empathetic. It's their job to take big decisions about running the country, based on their democratic mandate and what they believe to be right.

Having said all that, when you start to suspect (as I have) that both Labour and Tory governments are taking decisions that have this kind of fallout (including people's lives) based not on what they believe to be right but on the 24-hour news cycle, the conclusions of a focus group or simply the desire for an eyecatching initiative then that is another thing altogether. But at that point I think we need to be asking questions not about what kind of lip-service our politicians should be paying (right or left-wing) but about how to get more conviction of all kinds into politics. I agree with Bertie that it's a crying shame that right now the only alternatives are all equally bonkers.

editthis · 03/03/2015 10:22

from a right-wing philosophical standpoint, it's respectful of individual autonomy, fundamentally hopeful about human potential - but founded in a different vision of what humans are and what human society is capable of.

Well said, Manatee; much better than I attempted up thread. I don't think enough people know about this ideological stuff.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 03/03/2015 10:25

The Labour government under Blair took decisions they believed to be right, however catastrophic they turned out to be.

I have to disagree here. Blair is despicable. He certainly didn't lead the country into Iraq because he had any reason to think it was the "right" thing to do.

Samcro · 03/03/2015 10:26

"Government can't prevent suffering everywhere. It's not their role to even try."

proves the op's point sadly

pressone · 03/03/2015 10:29

One of my parents votes Labour the other Tory. Always have done because that is what they each believe to be right.
However if one of them is unable to vote the other doesn't either because they can see there are "good" and "bad" policies on both sides.
Of course the definition of whether a policy is good or bad depends on your personal circumstances or ideology.

IMO the Tories are driving public services to their knees with their austerity cuts, Labour allow too many people to become dependent on the state,(which would you rather - a decent minimum wage or tax credits to prop up low wages that employers then use to get away with paying wages people can't live on?) but the country can't afford it also somewhere along the line the bubble will burst and those who really need help won't get it.

Therefore if we are looking at empathy and moral compass I don't think either of the big two are shining lights.

OTheHugeManatee · 03/03/2015 10:29

I have to disagree here. Blair is despicable. He certainly didn't lead the country into Iraq because he had any reason to think it was the "right" thing to do.

He absolutely did believe it was the right thing to do. Still does. A close member of my family works for him and can attest to this.

The fact that the rest of the world disagrees doesn't obviate the fact that he did, and still does, believe it was the right thing to do.

Samcro · 03/03/2015 10:31

is blair up for election?

Iloveeatingeastereggs · 03/03/2015 10:32

Yes YABU.

Go away

zoemaguire · 03/03/2015 10:35

Stop reading books, yeah, they rot your brain you know.

Jesus wept! There are really people who think like this?! I know theoretically that they are out there, but, but...There's something really wrong when somebody can go through 11-odd years of compulsory schooling and come out with opinions like that.

Nancy66 · 03/03/2015 10:42

read books by all means. Just don't form your views on inaccurate books with a very clear bias and agenda.

lem73 · 03/03/2015 10:46

Blair is not up for election but he was elected by millions of Labour voters after getting us in an illegal war.

Samcro · 03/03/2015 10:47

so hardly relevant now as he won't be re elected

Sandybananapants · 03/03/2015 10:50

So based on your opinion on a book you've read, you want to annihilate the Tory voters , but yet say ' labour must not be brought into it'

What? You can't start a discussion without hearing both sides of the coin, neither can you generalise or throw out insults to a collective group of people based on YOUR opinion.

Personally I DESPISE labour and I cannot forgive what damage they did during the previous 13 years they were in power. I mean, vote for them?
Look who there is? Millepede? And Ed Balls- it- up??

I wouldn't trust the Labour Party in a million years.

I understand this is a predominately left wing site but come on?

What a v biased thread, with all intent to just Tory bash.

I really can't be bothered - what utter BS.