4 year old invited to party. wibu to take 7 year old.

[ghostspirit]

my 4 year old has been invited to a party. its at a church hall. but there's not a contact number on the invite. i have no one to look after my 7 year old. wibu to take hime with me? i dont have anyone to look after him.

None of my children were like each other as far as personality went. DD1 was always a fiercely independent little combatant on the social scene, DS was very shy (wouldn't eat his snack with the other children in preschool as he didn't like other children watching him eat and wouldn't go on sleepovers until he was 14, wouldn't go to the preschool the rest went to so I sent him to the YMCA instead); DD2 was a complete social butterfly, 'little Miss Conviviality'; DD3 was the one who had a fit the first day of school, and the next day too, always very reserved and sensitive and sort of 'deep'; DD4 was relaxed and cheerful and chose friends who were all only children for some reason. I would say only one was a true extrovert and the rest varying degrees of introvert.

They all learned to just get on with it and deal with people and situations in their own way. Their classmates ran the gamut from rambunctious to quiet and thoughtful. They all found their own level. There was only one child we ever encountered who was hard work in early childhood and who turned out to be a complete rotter as she grew older too. The rest who looked unpromising had what I might call a steeper learning curve than most but ended up just fine. One unpromising and very unempathetic girl became DD1's best friend as a teen and still is. She is studying medicine.

I never expected any of them to have the best time of their entire lives at a party. We would talk about their experiences and perceptions afterwards. I would ask them how they felt when so and so had said or done x or y or z, and how they dealt with it. I take the view that everything children experience has something to teach them, even if it is just that you can talk to mom about stuff and she isn't going to try to fix everything but just be a good listener.

There has to be a first time for the drop and run.

When does that happen? Why not at age 4? It has to happen some time..

I asked plenty of people for names of babysitters before I came up with a roster of three. It took a good deal of cold calling and was quite discouraging. But all I needed was one teen and she roped in her friends and they had sisters, and that got the ball rolling.

But why age 4? What is magical about the age of 4 that that's when you should drop and run? For me, it's probably around 5-7, depending on the child. DS1 - 7, DS2 - 5.

I wouldn't have dropped DS2 off at 4 because even though he was a confident child he is a summer born and therefore much younger than his peers, and at 4, was still having toileting accidents. DS1 suffered from constipation so would also be having accidents, and is only now relatively free of them but still under medical care. He would have been absolutely devastated to have an accident at a party and to have to rely on strange adult to help him out, and I really don't think the other parents should have had the obligation of helping him clean himself up - DS1 wouldn't even want them to KNOW let alone have them help.

Others though, would say different age groups.

I don't expect my DSs to have the best time of their lives, but neither do I expect them to have a miserable time being left out or being hit. I wouldn't go to a party to be miserable, why would I encourage him to go? Yet going to parties is exactly the type of social bonding that a shy or non confident child needs. My situation is particular to me, granted, but others must have also faced similar.

Your approach to babysitters is similar to mine (we even took one on holiday with us!), but the other parents wouldn't use a teenager to babysit, nor would they trust them to be responsible for a group of them at a party.

If I were having a party in a church or village hall I would not mind one child turning up who was just a few years older than the birthday child.

It is not like a birthday 'experience' where there are set places.

I would bring some extra food for the child (although again if it was me I would not mind said sibling tucking into the party fayre as I always over-catered spectacularly!

Make every effort before hand to ask, you must have some idea how to contact the parent, unless the party is today!

Personally, I never left my dd at a party until she was older than 4 and I think if your child does not want to be left then it is fine to stay with them. If it is church or village hall there will probably be some space for the older child to sit/go.

If I were the parent I would be happy people were coming to celebrate my child's birthday and happy to have an extra one, but I know not everyone feels like that which is why I would make every effort before hand to find out who the parents are and request.

PS If your child cannot be left then I would frame it like that, I cannot find a sitter for my seven year old and my four year old cannot be left without me at the moment, so I hope it will not be too much trouble if I bring my seven-year-old along too, please. I can bring some extra food and something to amuse seven year old.

Oh just seen party was yesterday! How did it go!

I would choose 4 because that's when you drop them off to spend the day in school with their many and varied schoolmates and usually one teacher and maybe a TA to control them all day.

They rely on strange adult help at the start of school if they have an accident. Or if they have a sub then that person is a stranger for the day.

I think people are far too suspicious of teenagers. I have never had a babysitting teen I wasn't happy with. Mind you my expectations were pretty low -- nobody lost or with a gaping head wound and kitchen not looking like a bear pit when I got home. Most of the time the DCs were in bed and all was peaceful. The cat escaped one night but that sorted itself out. When I had to leave in a hurry to get to the hospital to have DD2 exH found a 13 yo from the apartment building we lived in then who was willing to watch DD1 and DS (5 and 2) for a few hours. Her mother was a 'massage therapist' but beggars can't be choosers. She worked out fine; DD1 and DS were playing with her Barbie collection and eating cheese sandwiches when exH got home. The 13 year old was delighted to be the first in the building to hear the news of the arrival of DD2, and her mother brought around a nice casserole for us. Afterwards I used to hire her to come to the grocery store with me on weekends and help wrangle the DCs or push a second trolley around so I could get two weeks worth of shopping done at a time, and she would help carry it all up two flights of stairs or take care of the DCs while I hauled it all up.

Just read the party went well ghostspirit.

Still think 3.5 hour is a massively long time.

Surely mathanxiety the age at which you leave a child at a party is pretty much the age at which your individual child is relatively happy to be left at a party.

At least that is what I did and will do again with ds (now 4) when he is ready.

A party is very different from school. Just like a party for an adult is very different from work. Many adults go to work perfectly happily (to the same place with the same people) day by day. Yet to a party, they may feel nervous, might only go if a friend is going or only go if they go with their partner etc. Others may feel a bit like that but push themselves to go. We are all different. but they are adults, who have chosen to go. Sometimes kids can be coerced to go or might say yes and then on the day of the party say they no longer want to go! I've had all sorts with my two, now I let them say they don't want to go initially and leave it at that. But in the past dd would change her mind and I insisted she went having initially said yes, because I felt it was bad for the other kid and other parent/s to say yes and not go. But I stayed with her.

All children are different. I am not sure 4 is the magic number, but it may be for some.

Wow, I think dumping and running would be looked on very poorly where I live, unless there was some kind of individual arrangement between people. It's not a safe environment, people are focused on the party, not on where individual children are, what's to stop them running outside? Four year olds cannot be made responsible for their own wellbeing. And nor do people miraculously find some random teenagers to 'staff' the party with.

Parents who 'dump' their children on other people on the day would be considered ill mannered and a bit shocking actually - the kind of people you'd notice and think twice about inviting again.

erm clearly off the top of my head warts but the point is and remains this thread does not reflect reality in my experience.

I have been to parties with dd1 where the hosts have brought a party bag for dd2 as they assumed I would bring her like others have (and I didn't)

Personally I feel drop and run isnt always approved of. Dd is fine with being dropped, but sometimes I just dont feel comfortable to do so for whatever reason.

Dumping and running is really frowned upon here until children are 6.

One party that DS1 went to, only one set of parents dumped and ran. The child was a good friend of DS1's at the time, and I ended up looking after him AND DS1 all afternoon.
The mother is a still a bit grasping in terms of using other parents as her childcare - very quick to say yes to a playdate, but notorious for the invites not coming back the other way.

I'd take the older one but keep them sat at the side with a ds or something. and take some food for him.

As long as he's not running round and joining in its fine.

I had a couple of people bring older siblings at a pay per head party and it was fine. parents paid for them and they didn't come in for the food. I just bought a few cheap bags of sweets so they had something to take home as weren't on party bag list.

and at Dds other party the older one sat out and wasn't any trouble at all. There was plenty of food though so he was more than welcome to ear and take some cake home.

It's only a problem when you allow them to join in and get in the way.

not going at all when he could easily just sit down and read is a bit daft.

and yes party is waaaaayyy to long

Drop and run is normal from 4th birthday parties on here - my eldest and youngest were absolutely delighted to be dropped off (my youngest isn't quite 4 but is already more than happy to be dropped at 4th birthday parties - hosts don't encourage parents to come in when it's a party). My middle one couldn't cope at all till he was nearly 7 - he'd flip out and have a proper full on melt down if asked to cross a threshold without me, or get in anyone else's car, even though he would desperately want to go, he just somehow couldn't. He grew out of it at a very clearly identifiable moment shortly before he turned 7 and now loves going places without a parent and forgets to say goodbye :o
Not being able to drop him off meant he missed a few parties, as it would have been an imposition to ask to stay, especially with siblings.

However parties for 4-6 year olds where I live are almost always at home, with 4-6 guests invited! The village hall whole class parties sound nightmarish, and dropping a 4 year old at one of those where you don't even know the hosts well enough to have their phone number, and they are disorganised enough not to have put it on the invite, sounds a bad idea!

Parties for children up to age 6 or so held at "venues" where parents stay to supervise have always been ones where siblings are welcome (but parents tacitly know to cover any per child cost for extra kids themselves) because most people realise half their guests wouldn't be able to attend otherwise.

A lot of parents have no option but to take a sibling. Personally, I always used to do a few extra party bags just in case. As far as food goes, there is always spare food, even when u have pre-ordered food, I have been known to order an extra one at the party if a sibling turns up. The parents have offered to pay, which is courtesy, but when all said and done it's normally only a few quid extra anyway. I just couldn't sit there and see another child turn up with no food or party bad. Just go and say 'look I'm really sorry, but I had to bring ......'. Most parents understand that and tbh I'd be more annoyed if someone stopped and dropped a 4 year old, than bringing a sibling. It's never been an issue for me, It's happened on most parties I've hosted, but what are parents supposed to do?

Reception year is where it crosses over here. Year before they start school all will stay, recep year number of people staying will peter out and staying is fine if you / your child prefers, year 1 is 100% dump and run.

I would never leave my 4 year old dd on her own at a party unless there was someone else there specifically to look out for her. My experience of parties with school friends is that parents don't really know each other and are there to look out for their own children, the hosts are busy with party stuff and again their own child. In the last party I went to any child could have easily wandered straight out of the door and onto a main road. If I'd have just dropped and run I couldn't trust that people I didn't know would ensure this didn't happen, or even notice. It amazes me that people just drop their toddlers at a party and just leave without making prior arrangement or knowing they'd be cared for properly. I wouldn't leave my phone or laptop with a bunch of strangers so I sure as hell wouldn't leave my child.

School is completely different. It's ridiculous to say it's the same thing. They are in a safe environment with trained professionals and under their care for the time they're in school. I am confident she is safe when I leave her at school, I wouldn't be if I left her with people I don't know. It may be different if I lived in a small tight knit community where everyone knows each other but that just isn't my experience and I haven't known anyone to leave their 4 yr old at a party.

Different here. Most parents stay with their kids till they are at least 7, sometimes older. It's nice for the host to have those extra pair of hands to help out too. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to look after loads of 4 year olds practically single-handedly :o

would never have left a 4 year old at a party. At that age and stage, the majority of the parents and the relatives who came along to the children's parties were total strangers.

yeah i agree school is completely different. my daughter been going to the same school since she was 3. the nursery is in the school when she went into reception she basically went to the class next door. most days shes gos in the gate really happy blows kisses shouts bye have a good day and thats it. other days shes like a leech and wont let go and clings on and crys and moans. in this case i just kind of pull her of me try get her in several times. then a member of staff will take her and i leg it and leave her as she is. there is no way i could do that at a party not fair on the parent or the other party goers.

after school i always ask her why was you silly this morning.. she says i was not. me oh ok. why did you cry then. her: i did not laughing at same time :/ what you do at school... i dont know... what you have for dinner i dont know :/

The only way children learn to do things on their own is to let them do things on their own. If you don't let them try then they will not learn.

ItalianGreyhound -- I have a suspicion that some people who say their children are not ready are not ready themselves.

I also think it is important for children to understand that they can feel nervous and it doesn't need to hold them back, they can find their feet, and can be self reliant. I think there is a point where you risk hobbling children by providing constant support. I would not tell a child she was being silly if she cried or made a fuss. I would ask her how she was feeling when she was crying and how she resolved the problem, how she felt afterwards. I would also say I was proud of her for overcoming her reluctance and upset and settling down for the school day.

XiCi -- 4 yos are not toddlers.

I cannot imagine the chaos of a party in someone's home where there are parents and children and the host family all present. How could anyone possibly hope to have a decent or even a safe time with so many adults who don't know each other present? How do you know whether your children are going to be safe with all those strangers who are by definition people you do not know?

Glad it worked out OP.

For me the age for leaving depended on the venue and the child. I left them at small home parties well before big sports centre affairs. Some hall parties are secure and no child can wander off; others they are in and out of the hall into a public area to go to the loo every 5 mins, and no adult can keep tabs on them all. School's different, the whole thing is set up so DC can't just wander out of the building or run into random strangers in public toilets while no one even knows they are there.

Paranoia, possibly, but I got a bit spooked running DD's party and being responsible for 4 year olds whose parents didn't introduce themselves, tell us they were dropping off, or leave a contact number. Especially when I realised I had no idea where one of these 4 year olds was! (She had left the room to go to loo, but no one had seen her go.)

i would not want to look out for other parents children. defo if i do not know them that well. or if its one of them parents that if their child fall over its the end of the world and the parent let you know it. why were you not watching him type of thing.

I think there must be a culture clash here, as it sounds like leaving children unattended is expected in some parts, and it's probably fine if it's expected and that's the way things are set up.

I think the issue comes when someone behaves like that in a culture in which others aren't doing it or expecting others to do it.

Also, it's probably only an issue at between 3-5/ 6 years?

I wonder what would happen if there was an accident in that situation?

I absolutely would not take responsibility for any accident a child had because a parent decided to 'dump and run'. I would feel terrible but it wouldn't be anything to do with me. And I don't think most people I know would be ok with it either. If that parents decides to leave their child unattended, the blame lies squarely with themselves if the child goes missing / has an accident etc.

I was horrified last year as it turned out a child was 'dumped' at Ds party, but the parent only told one person, who was just another guest, and who was quite confused about it (as it's such unexpected behaviour to leave a 3-4 yr old!), so they didn't think to pass on the message. So no one actually knew there was a pre- schooler left without anyone looking after him! The child was self contained and didn't aak for help throughout the party, and must have taken themselves down two corridors and to the loo which was shared with a public cafe... Just because the child was ok doesn't mean to say the situation was ok!

Parties are not sealed environments like schools or daycare. They don't have roll calls and counting heads and vetted staff. There is no one there who's job it is to look after all children's safety and security.

There are people who are focused on the party itself, set up, games, food etc, and they are usually very very busy, and lucky to grab a minute just to sit down and chat to a friend. Then there are entertainers who are focused on, well, entertaining the children, not taking care of them. And there are guests who are there to have a chat and keep an eye on their own kids, and who are pretty oblivious to everything else. Basically there's a level of benign neglect which only happens/ works because each child is there with an adult ... even if that's a friend who's brought their kids and their friends kids, so they know that they are definitely 'in charge' of those children.

Parties are expensive and a lot of time, effort and preparation goes into them, without making them responsible for the welfare of every child in the place too. In the party culture I live in, it would be considered selfish to make these already frazzled/ run off their feet people also be unpaid child minders, or force them to have to pay for babysitters / extra people to take on that role. It would also make throwing a party unfeasible for many people, single parents without a huge number of friends and relatives for example...

I'm organising a party now for 4-5 yr olds, and I certainly wouldn't be expecting to be made into a glorified babysitter by parents who've never met me, never been to the venue and had no idea how the party is going to be run!

I would feel forced to say yes if someone came in and 'asked' me on the day if I'd look after their child as they were going to be left on their own. You can't really say no on the day when the child is at the party seeing her/ his friends have a lovely time in front of her. I wouldn't be happy though and would have to ask others to keep an eye on the child as I wouldn't have the time, and once it had happened once, other people would think twice about inviting that child again, knowing the parent was going to dump the child on other people with no notice or consideration...

Very different from a culture where it's accepted and a reciprocal arrangement!

Miscellaneous how will you feel about parents who have no other childcare bringing siblings? Those same single parents without family help will need to if they have to stay (as will some parents from 2 parent families where 1 partner works shifts/ weekends/ away).

I wouldn't leave a 3-4 year old at a party like the one you describe - but there are no parties like that here! 3-5 year olds have parties at home almost always. On the 2 occasions (out of probably 20 or more parties for that age group my kids have beento between them) that it's been a party outside the home it's been a petting farm once and a pony farm the other time, still only one guest per year of child's age, and siblings welcome (though without pony rides).

If parents need to stay siblings need to be accepted (though not paid for by host if there are per head costs, of course).

I have always taken responsibility forall the kids at my kids parties, but never gone more than 2 invitees over one guest per year of party child's age. No frazzled Ness necessary andno random strangers - kids invite their actual friends...