4 year old invited to party. wibu to take 7 year old.

[ghostspirit]

my 4 year old has been invited to a party. its at a church hall. but there's not a contact number on the invite. i have no one to look after my 7 year old. wibu to take hime with me? i dont have anyone to look after him.

party has already happend. i did take him.... i dont get though how come so many people think you can just leave your 4 year old and go :/

tobysmum77 i do wonder weather some of the people who say no way. are either parents of just the one child. or have childcare on a tap or have a partner who can have their child. or the children are old enough to stay home alone. or their child is easy to be left. i dont know really :/

and the people who say the host might say yes to be polite but really does not want the older child there... could easy be the other way as well that host really does not mind

mussketeers for me i would defo rather a few extras than alot of people not turning up for my childs birthday.

In the real world none of my friends would have an issue with this. At that age parents are often expected to stay in which case siblings are inevitable. I've always checked before hand but op couldn't do that. It's such a non issue except on mn.

Glad it all worked out!

I'm glad it worked out op.

Oh, I've been there. It's a tough situation. You need to cultivate some friendships with fellow mums of both your children and swap favours of looking after each other's children for just these events. Look out for those with more than one child to start with because they are going through exactly the same thing.

Otherwise at some point it becomes unmanageable, especially if they both have parties or events to go to on the same day, but at slightly different times or different venues.....

Today it worked, but at other parties it might not.

Fellow mums of friends of both of your children.......

You leave your 4 yo in school, so a party is no different. They are potty trained, they can speak, they are used to operating in a group and co-operating with grown ups (learning from school experience) so they can therefore learn to manage parties too..

The more confidence you have that your child will survive and the less you convey to your child by hanging around that they can't manage without you, the more likely it is that your child will do just fine.

I am a single mum of five. When they were younger I was married, but having five of them meant there was no way I could just rock up to a party with all of them and expect to be accommodated.

exH was into doing his own merry thing on weekends so I was carrying everything pretty much 24/7. The DCs learned to shift for themselves. However, this was pretty much the culture of where we lived (suburban US), and not only did parents teach children self reliance from quite an early age, the school was also far more of a community where people helped each other out than anything I was familiar with in Britain or Ireland. This meant everyone had a copy of the school directory with addresses or at least phone numbers (compiled on an opt out basis) of other parents, and listings by family and also by class. This made finding babysitters really easy and also meant people could arrange carpools to and from parties right from the start, and children adapted very easily to the communal approach.

I could phone around and have one family take DD3 to a party at 2, another family bring DD2 to work on some group homework at the library, then I could bring several children including DS to karate at 3, run a few errands and pick up DD3 and some friends from the party at 5, swing past the library and pick up DD2 and her homework buddies and drop off children all over the place. Participating in that sort of merry go round required a large minivan or SUV. Mine seated 7 passengers and me the driver. People mock Americans and their huge vehicles but this is what they are used for.

You leave your 4 yo in school, so a party is no different.

Good heavens! It is COMPLETELY different and I can't believe you can't see that!!!

A child's FIRST introduction to the school environment is usually with their parent. Then they have subsequent introduction days, where the parent loiters a bit, but then is encouraged to leave if the child is happy. All the time being supervised by professionals who are TRAINED to look after children.

And even then, occasionally you have some situations in which this just doesn't happen and new tactics need to be used for some children who really struggle.

At a party you have some frazzled parents who may or may not have enough adults to supervise, who may or may not have any intention of monitoring ALL the children, boisterous children who make more timid children very nervous, in an environment which may or may not be safe for your child.

If any parent of a 4 year old had left their child unsupervised at one of the parties at OUR school they'd have been (and a few WERE) spoken to very severely!!!!!

And Village Hall parties, which tended to be whole of class parties, IME were always the WORST for supervising children actively - more like a scene out of Lord of the Flies......

Really, PintofCider - a parent would have been 'spoken to severely' for leaving a (invited) child at a party?! How odd.

I regularly left my 4 year old at parties. I didn't want to, but I had to. She has an older, severely disabled sibling, and so staying with her at parties was not an option. I had to drop her (with her pre-packed bag of party food, due to allergies), as otherwise she would not have been able to go to the party at all. She was (and is) a quiet, shy child. It was not her preferred course of action at all, but she was always given the choice, and it was better (to her) to go, and be handed into the care of another parent she knew, than not to go at all.

If anyone had dared 'talk to me severely' for just doing my bloody best in a difficult situation, they would have got short bloody shrift.

Yes, they were, as in 'please STAY with your child when you come to the party, no one else is supervising them', OR, 'arrange for another parent to supervise them' - but not in a 'how DARE you do such a thing'. (Sorry, perhaps severely was too strong a word). Either one, not just leave them.

It sounds as though you arranged for another parent to supervise.

The main culprits were a couple of parents who couldn't be arsed to stay and dropped and flitted off without saying anything. The ones that had difficulty always arranged alternatives - contacting the party child's parent in advance if it was ok, stopping long enough to make sure their child was settled and then letting other parents know they were leaving so that others were aware and could keep an eye on them, or asking a fellow parent to supervise in advance of the party (and perhaps even going with them in the first place).

I had one parent told me that I categorically could NOT bring my younger son to a party as she had the numbers firmly arranged - but she wanted my older son supervised. So I told her in that case I was sorry but there was a chance that my older son couldn't attend the party as my DH was possibly going to be away - and he wouldn't settle with anyone else. (He would just flatly refuse to go in if I wouldn't go in with him.)

A party for my DS1 at an open venue where it would was VERY easy for children to wander off if unsupervised I put on the invite that all children needed to be accompanied by a supervising adult. Who that adult was I didn't much mind, it just wasn't going to be me as I was too busy dealing with all the party things.

Where on earth did you get 95?from tobysmum?
math you do amazing and I think its great you can call upon another mother to take your child/children to parties...that's what I resort to when I can't get childcare, and I return the favour to other mothers.
These presumptions are amazing mind...only one child etc...no, I just wouldn't be rude enough to rock up to a party with kids that weren't invited.
Credit to the Op though, she didn't have the choice of asking as no RSVP number so she did what she thought best - although she did ask for opinions and dragon I would completely agree about allowing friends kids to the party - they would be invited - what a stupid aguement!!

I did this recently because it was only the second ever party for the 3.5 year old invitee and all the other parents were staying, so I did too with my 7 year old who was under strict instructions to sit and read and not eat the food.. it kind of worked..

All no, no formal arrangements for another parent to look after her, tbh. I never saw (or indeed see, even now) other parents at pick up due to complicated arrangements, so couldn't really arrange it. But there was always some parents staying, especially when they were so young, and so a quick check on the day that they were happy to help if dd2 needed it was all that could be managed.

I do think it is down to party hosts to ensure they can adequately supervise the number roof children they invite, though. I would find it odd to get an invite stating I MUST stay with my child at a social event aimed at 4/5/6 year olds.

That's not how it was done where my children went to school.

Parents did not enter the building after an initial optional tour of the room that lasted about an hour the week before school started.

On the first day of school teachers greeted the children individually by name outside the school and sent each one into the building where the TA also greeted them and showed them where to put their bag and jacket.

My DD3 baulked and started crying inconsolably after being greeted by the teacher so I was allowed to carry her in and deliver her to the TA who took her by the hand and asked her to be her special helper for the day.

Parents stayed outside at pick up time too, and children were brought to the door and released one by one to parents/caregivers when they came to the door for the handoff. Children were expected to manage their own outerwear (taking off and putting on), and changing out of snowboots and into indoor footwear in winter, and the reverse at the end of the day. No parents ever entered to help children out of outerwear or escort them to their classrooms, or out again. Children were allowed to enter the school about ten minutes before classes started and they waited in class lines outside until then, with supervision provided by whatever teachers got outside duty on any given day. They entered the building in orderly lines. Parents could stay on the sidewalk and chat if they wished.

No parents who ever threw a party did so without having plenty of helping hands, in my observation and experience in the US. The vast majority of parties for children aged 4 to 7 were whole class parties too. Mostly the hosts had their own relatives or had teenagers lined up to wrangle the children.

The one party I went to where parents and children were all invited (in Ireland) featured children behaving far less well and displaying far less self sufficiency than they did at parties I threw with me and exH in charge and some teens hired to help out. The parents ether got in the way or just kept off to one side chatting and letting 'someone else' do the job of helping out. There is no need for parents to be frazzled. Plan well, make sure you have helpers who understand what is expected of them, and all will go smoothly.

If I was the mother of the birthday child alltheworld I would have to ask him to join in as I'm that kind of mother who couldn't let a child sit on the sidelines....does anyone actually get where I'm coming from because I'm beginning to feel its more acceptable to let a child attend a birthday party where he/she could not eat the food or join in and just watch from afar...I may be in the 'minority' but I think that's cruel - would rather cut all that out and just take the invited child!!

I know I seem quite strident about it, but I was quite taken aback, and actually quite insulted by Maths' post, and actually I usually admire her posts so I was surprised by it.

DS1 would NEVER go into a party if I didn't go in with him. Very few of these parties were ever adequately supervised if they were activity based ones. They shy children who didn't have parents there or who had parents more interested in socialising and not paying attention to them looked like they were having a dreadful time, and the boisterous ones were causing all sorts of mischief and intimidating and physically hurting other children. DS didn't like entertainers, and didn't like traditional party games, but overall did enjoy attending and loved seeing his friends out of school.

Only now, at almost 8, is he comfortable enough to go on his own although does need us to go in with him at first rather than just drop off at the front door/entrance, and even so he'd like either myself or DH to stay if other parents stay.

I don't think he's a particularly problematic child. Less confident than others but I can see that there would be other children who would have a harder time than he would so this expectation to just drop and run is just awful for me.

But... DS2 is a different kettle of fish. He just gets on with it without a fuss, and if others have children with this sort of temperament and inner strength then I can see why they would think there was no problem just dropping off.

And wrt parties, venues were always carefully chosen with safety in mind. So no place would ever be chosen where children could wander off or leave with a stranger and no activity that would be potentially dangerous was chosen - swimming or a trip to a beach for example, or even to a park near a main road.

Maths - in the area of the UK which I live most of the mothers are 'older' mothers - at the infant school predominantly 35 - 44 years.

The majority had moved to the area in the last few years, didn't have family around them, and their social network frequently comprised of fellow mothers - I know mine did.

I had no one to 'help' me at my parties, except for fellow mothers, who were in the exact position as I was, and who I only knew superficially.

The reason parties get out of hand the way you describe is that the hosts think the parents are going to handle the children and the parents think the hosts are, and nobody actually steps in and takes responsibility. If it was a cut and dried matter of hosts assuming they were 100% in charge of parties and planned accordingly, then just as in school children would behave reasonably well.

I was an immigrant from Ireland moving into a well established American community where many had known each other for years and some were actually relatives I found out years later, but some were complete blow-ins just like me. I knew nobody at all except on a superficial level for the first few years. I had a foreign accent to boot, and an Irish name that nobody could pronounce. In addition, while I was a sahm, many of the parents were working. I was more likely to be mingling with Polish nannies at the playground than other parents.

I solved the party supervision thing by taking a deep breath and hiring teenagers who were recommended to me by people I barely knew. $20 each to three friendly teenage girls was always money very well spent, and when I saw how well they related to the children, I called them for babysitting.

Nobody bothered with playdates where the parent also came to chat -- children were dropped off and arrangements made as to pick up time and whether they would be fed.

In neither of my DSs classes were their fellow students all sufficiently confident that I could have asked for parents to drop and run, and therefore keep 100% of the responsibility. They just weren't. SOME were, but probably only about half. And quite frankly, I didn't want it. At 4 and 5 there were still children who were having accidents and needed changes of clothing. Thanks but no thanks.

At 8 years old, yes they are. But up until now, they just weren't.

And neither were all of the parents all comfortable leaving their children on their own - some of them would flatly refuse.

And some children would flatly refuse. DS1 wouldn't have gone to a birthday party at all for the first few years if I was expected to drop and run, even though I regularly (once a week) left him with a childminder, and he had babysitters who he was happy staying with.

And don't forget, some of those inattentive parents also threw parties - if I couldn't trust them to supervise their own child at a party, why would I trust them to supervise mine?!

But Maths - you had to slot into the way they did things there - because it WAS how it was done. But it is done differently in other environments, and that approach wouldn't work because it ISN'T the way it is done.

I couldn't ask people to drop and run at a village hall party, because its not the done thing. You can't take a foreign approach to the problem and expect it to work. These are children who have NEVER been dropped off by parents before. That is why the few who tried it stood out so much.

If I asked ANY of the parents at DSs school for the names of some teenagers who could help supervise the party I would be greeted by blank stares. They just don't know of any. I know this because most of them can barely find babysitters, if they don't have family around.

Anyway, I don't mean to be critical of you personally, as I said I usually quite like your posts. But you have to work with the culture you are in, and the culture of the school your children attend.

In all honesty I could'nt have dropped and ran...ds2 would never have settled -
but I still wouldn't take an uninvited child to a party j