To report this childminder?

[Happyyellowcar]

Was at playgroup today with DD and DS1. A local childminder was also there with several small children in tow. I see her around a lot as she goes to many of the same groups as I do. One of her charges was maybe a year old and obviously just toddling. During snack time I was standing behind DS2, holding DD whilst chatting to a friend when suddenly the little toddler who happened to be sitting next to DS1, toppled head first off her chair and onto the wooden floor. She landed on her head and her neck actually crunched. I hadn't even noticed she was there until she fell off as I was trying to stop DS2 from pinching all the breadsticks. Another mum picked up the now screaming toddler and looked around for the childminder who was sitting quite far from the table, chatting yo her friend. She was actually turned away from the table and on the far side from where this toddler was sitting. She was passed the toddler and have her a cuddle but I'm sure didn't realise how serious her fall had been. I feel really incensed on behalf of the toddler's mother who must think that her child is in safe hands whilst she is at work. I've used a childminder myself with DS2 and the thought that this might have happened to him is sickening. No mother would have left their own child on a chair at such a young age without keeping a closer eye, surely? How else is she being neglectful? AIBU to want to report her?

I've not read RTFT but if you heard the child's neck "crunch" then surely she should have been taken to hospital to be checked over. Or are you exaggerating for effect OP? If the incident was as serious as you've outlined in your first post, it's a no-brainer that the child's parents should be told about it, just to get the all clear from a doctor.

Its this that concerns me, she doesn't understand how serious falls, head injuries can be, very very lax. The follow up, worries me more than the fall.

Finbarrcarr - I have explained several times what I meant by the crunch thing. Pls have a look back at some earlier posts. Why would I want to lie or exaggerate? Do you think I take some sort of enjoyment from describing a child's fall from a chair and perhaps fancied making it a bit more gory? It's something I truly wish I hadn't seen and also wish I could get the image out if my mind. I agree lots of things could have been done better at the time, starting with the cm's care. Perhaps someone could have restrained the poor thing to try to prevent a neck injury from worsening but how do you do that with a wriggling, screaming 1 yr old? She was picked up and passed along to the cm v quickly. It all happened very fast and I was supervising 2 small children myself . At least I did tell her as soon as I had the chance that she had fallen upside down onto her head . If I had tried to confront her at the time I would have had to leave DS2 at the table, forced my way around the table through all the people supervising their kids and through all the kids siting on chairs over to where she was and then there would probably have been a bit of an altercation. I guess the other people who saw it happen would've put their two penneth in and she would end up feeling ganged up on by us horrible mothers. Imagine it! She may then decide not to come back to playgroups and so the kids end up in front of cbeebies instead. A possible outcome. Instead I had a quiet word 30mins after the incident to check she did know the facts. And luckily I saw the little girl yesterday at another playgroup and she was fine

Sad that this has been turned into a polarised CM-bashing vs CM-defending thread yet again.

Especially so because, these days, there's no way of knowing whether all these CMs are indeed registered childminders. In many areas, it's more likely that they aren't
Op doesn't even know this one's name!

However.

I won't comment on whether or not this lady was negligent. I'd need more information than the Op can give with a mere snapshot of the incident.
I'm surprised that Op has posted in AIBU: if she didn't want a CM-bashing thread, the Home Childcare board would have been more appropriate.
I don't think you have reason to report her based on what you have said happened. How can you anyway, when you don't know her name, don't know if she's registered and have no idea who to report her to?

Snapshot incidents are easily misinterpreted and it's best not to judge too hastily. Let me add my experience of one:

I collect from a school with very relaxed security. People chat and let the kids play while they're waiting. For that reason, I'm vigilant and watch mine all the time.

Except on one occasion when the teacher distracted me to tell me there had been an incident with the child I was collecting. I took my eyes off the kids for a minute or so and, when I looked back, one of them had gone.

After alerting staff and frantically searching, I turned my attention to outside the school. There he was, half way up the road in the care of two self-righteous mothers who proceeded to accuse me of negligence, of having too many children, of being too busy talking and not doing my job.
Never mind that they had been so busy talking, they left the gate open and didn't notice he'd tagged on to their group until they'd got to their cars...

It's easy to make snap judgements. I have no idea whether your judgement in this case is right or wrong. I don't think you have enough information to decide either.

I'm not a childminder; never was and never will be now I am physically disabled. I wasn't cared for by a childminder as a child, neither were my children. I am not married to or related to a childminder. I don't even socially know any childminders. Just because I disagree with the OP does not mean I have a vested interest in the childminding industry.

I've just read all your posts by highlighting them and the crunch thing still isn't fully explained to me. Why say crunch when you didn't mean that you had heard a crunch but "seen" one. How do you "see" a crunch. So, yeah, I think you are exaggerating. And I reiterate that if the injury was as bad as you're claiming, the child should have been seen by a medical professional immediately and the parents informed, regardless of any repercussions for you or the childminder

Whether intentional or not your OP is more about being narked at a childminder having the temerity to chat to someone in a social situation and debating to subsequently dob her in to the relevant authorities.

It's easy to make snap judgements. I have no idea whether your judgement in this case is right or wrong. I don't think you have enough information to decide either

i think she does. a one year old was left with food, alone while she had a chat, the child had an accident, she was totally un awares and then, was not proactive in asking what happened, or check the child over.

A one year old.

Most people with small children are aware how quick they are, in a split second they can choke, grab a hot drink, fall.

I do not leave mine alone, I literally am with her, look away and she manages to do something. So I would not, leave her eating and be far enough away to not notice a fall. In toddler groups, if I need to get something i always ask someone to watch her, and then its only for seconds.

I have seen many CM having a chat whilst standing and watching over their charges.

It's very easy to check if a childminder is registered, your local council will have details and inspection reports are available on Ofsteds website. If someone is providing care that should be registered (e.g., caring for children under 8 for more than two hours a day) then it is illegal to not be registered and you should report anyone doing this.

I think YABU to report this time. We're all human and accidents do happen. Maybe this child is a relatively new mindee and the CM didn't realise she could climb or how close an eye she'd need to keep. Maybe, rightly or wrongly, she got distracted. Maybe the person she was talking to struck up the conversation and the CM was trying unsuccessfully to get away. Maybe she's just really slack and bad at her job.

There's no way of knowing but accidents do happen and this was, thankfully, not a serious one. Children do fall and I think had she been standing right beside the child the outcome may not have been any different, it can happen so quickly that often you don't get time to react and catch a falling child.

YANBU to keep a vague eye on things and report her if this seems to be standard behaviour, or at the very least tell the parents so they can decide the next step. You can ring Family Information Services at your local council for advice too (you could do this confidentially if you so wished), they offer support and advice to childcare providers and they'd tell you whether it's something that they'd be concerned about.

In the meantime, would it be worth having a quiet word with the leader of the playgroup so that they can issue a general reminder to all patrons about supervising the children properly, especially around chairs and at snack time?

Not very easy to check a register without a name.

Children do fall and I think had she been standing right beside the child the outcome may not have been any different, it can happen so quickly that often you don't get time to react and catch a falling child

Of course, however she would have been able to see how serious the fall was, check the child over and give the parents a comprehensive account of the fall, and monitor the child accordingly, none of these things happened.

Finbarrcar- I'm not going over the whole crunch thing again to try and convince you that I am telling the truth. You have obviously made up your mind that I am exaggerating and that's entirely your choice. I will say that I completely agree she should have been seen by a medical professional - hence why I double checked with the cm that she did know what happened. Please suggest what more I could have done and I will attempt to be a better person if it should happen again. I hope the cm will also try to be better next time!
Tanith - I did not intend to start a cm bashing thread and am sorry if some people have turned it into one. I ace said that I have used one in the past and will do so again for DD. I am not talking about ALL cm's at playgroups ALL of the time but this particular cm at this particular time. I don't think I have given you a snap shot view, however. She was sitting down, turned away from the tables chatting while all of her mindees were at the tables having snacks . At that particular time (at least 5 min of snack time had gone by before the girl fell) she was clearly negligent. I don't really care if she was trying to end a conversation etc. she could have sat actually facing towards the tables at least. But really she should have been standing behind the little one.
I do find it strange that some posters think my actions are somehow worse than those of the cm at the time!

Bearfrills - thanks I think I will have a word with the playgroup leader - maybe he will stick up a poster reminding people to supervise their kids!

"Please suggest what more I could have done", er, phone an ambulance?

I do find it strange that some posters think my actions are somehow worse than those of the cm at the time

Strange yes, but v common on MN.

Anyone, witnessing accidents, harm and so on to the young, be they like you, or a nursery worker and so on, will always be the ones at fault, not the actual person causing harm through negligence or otherwise.

IamSlave. If someone is coming on to AIBU claiming they saw a child sustain a serious injury at a playgroup, to me their focus should have been on ensuring the child got medical attention, NOT the negligence (or otherwise) of the CM which could have been addressed AFTER the child was given a clean bill of health.

OP, sorry you have got a bashing here. Some people do like to have a go at others, it's a shame, it think it makes them happy to attack other people. They will keep having a go at you as long as you post. if I were you I would bow out.
The CM was being paid to look after the child. She was not looking after the child, it's that simple.
As I said upthread, at the toddler groups I used to attend the CM's were a slovenly lot and I used to feel very sorry for the children's parents who probably believed that their children were actually being looked after. I felt even more sorry for the children though. The young nannies were only marginally better.

Yes finn, as op said she will wear a sling next time to have hands free to deal with any other neglected charges by CM

You and the OP can be as snarky as you like Slave, the fact is IF the incident as the initial post suggested quote "her neck actually crunched" and then the OP backtracked on that...so no it didn't "actually crunch" we are left with a scenario where we have no idea the seriousness of the fall because the OP keeps changing the story. But IF it had been that serious then phone an ambulance. However it's very doubtful that it was. I don't understand why people start threads on here and then move the goalposts around when they get challenged or get sarcastic and defensive when discrepancies are pointed out to them. Seems a bit attention seeking and goady to me, but hey-ho, such is AIBU.

narked at a childminder having the temerity to chat to someone in a social situation
If the one year old was next to her and she was within reach of preventing the child from tumbling from a chair, there wouldn't be a problem, but the CM had no business "chatting to someone in a social situation" and being unaware what the child was doing. If it was my child I'd be more than "narked".

Sounds like the playgroup isn't very safe. Why wasn't a one year old strapped into a highchair?

Well aren't you perfect OP.

My dd fell off a chair in playgroup. Onto the hard floor. I was stood behind her. She had a black eye & a bruised face.

Kids fall.

It isn't neglectful.

Report her. My god, the poor woman.

....and why doesn't the OP just tell the parents already and let them decide whether to be narked instead of being it on their behalf?

Finbarrcar - as I said before I don't think it was a 999 emergency since the little one stayed conscious and was moving. So no I wouldn't call for an ambulance even if it happened again. Had she lost consciousness or couldn't move then I would of course asked someone to call 999 - I didn't have a hand free so couldn't myself. I am not " narked" just because the cm was chatting - she has been sitting and chatting at lots of playgroup we have both attended in the past few years and I have never felt the need to post on here about it! I have never particularly been bothered about it except thinking that I 'd rather have a cm who got a bit more involved with some activities. Why did I post in AIBU? Well I wondered if I was being unreasonable to think about reporting her for this incident! I 'm not backtracking or changing my story at all - I meant crunched like a concertina but accept it has been interpreted completely differently by some posters. Finally I will bow out now as I can't keep explaining what happened for the rest of my life but there have been some gems amongst the coals so to speak and so I will maybe try to speak to the cm about the incident, hopefully without it degenerating into a bun-fight as has happened here. Thanks all (well most !),

Fair enough. Bye for now.

Brick wall. Head. Start banging happyellow!