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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To report this childminder?

232 replies

Happyyellowcar · 26/02/2015 21:22

Was at playgroup today with DD and DS1. A local childminder was also there with several small children in tow. I see her around a lot as she goes to many of the same groups as I do. One of her charges was maybe a year old and obviously just toddling. During snack time I was standing behind DS2, holding DD whilst chatting to a friend when suddenly the little toddler who happened to be sitting next to DS1, toppled head first off her chair and onto the wooden floor. She landed on her head and her neck actually crunched. I hadn't even noticed she was there until she fell off as I was trying to stop DS2 from pinching all the breadsticks. Another mum picked up the now screaming toddler and looked around for the childminder who was sitting quite far from the table, chatting yo her friend. She was actually turned away from the table and on the far side from where this toddler was sitting. She was passed the toddler and have her a cuddle but I'm sure didn't realise how serious her fall had been. I feel really incensed on behalf of the toddler's mother who must think that her child is in safe hands whilst she is at work. I've used a childminder myself with DS2 and the thought that this might have happened to him is sickening. No mother would have left their own child on a chair at such a young age without keeping a closer eye, surely? How else is she being neglectful? AIBU to want to report her?

OP posts:
Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 10:27

Do you think she would have completely honest about it? Would she have said that she didn't see what happened because she wasn't near the table and having a chat ? She would probably just say the child fell off a chair and the parents would probably shrug and say "children do fall off chairs!" like a lot of people on here. That is only half if the story, however. If she said "she fell off the chair because I wasn't supervising her, but rather having a sit down and a chat in another part if the rom AND in fact I didn't even see it happen but some other people told me about it", well would the parents shrug then do you think?

OP posts:
Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 10:27

*room

OP posts:
WayfaringStranger · 28/02/2015 10:30

fanjo Unfortunately, you're not going to get much sensible input from someone who thinks "I did GCSE law" makes her knowledgeable on the topic of negligence and neglect. Wink

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 28/02/2015 10:35

This is true Grin

Stratter5 · 28/02/2015 10:45

1. the defendant owed them a duty of care;

2. the defendant was in breach of that duty;

3. the breach of duty caused damage and;

4. the damage was not too remote.

Yet that is actually concise and useful, GCSE or not.

There's a lot of nastiness on this thread; the OP is genuinely, and imo, correctly concerned. I would be expecting a CM to be actively keeping an eye on my child, it's perfectly possible to do so from a distance, and be aware without interfering.

OP has asked a perfectly reasonable question. How's about answering it respectfully, and sensibly.

insancerre · 28/02/2015 10:54

How do you know the cm isn't wracked with guilt and is now reflecting on the experience and deciding that the child needs more supervision?
She might be right now drafting out a new risk assessment for the toddler group
If you use childcare you do have to accept that your child wnt get 1-1 supervision in a group care situation

Rjae · 28/02/2015 10:56

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Rjae · 28/02/2015 10:59

OP I would keep an eye on this CM and if you see further evidence of bad practice I would then report it. Hopefully it was just a one off and she is normally conscientious, but if not she is betraying the trust of the parents whose children she should be caring for.

TwoOddSocks · 28/02/2015 11:01

Rjae

The posters who were attacking you were exactly the kind of people that give MN a bad name. Really very nasty.

Inkanta · 28/02/2015 11:07

OP I can understand why you have got some stick - for not reporting the crunch to the neck straight away. The child's welfare was your first priority because you had witnessed it and the information needed passing on.

The CM's bad practice issue comes later.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 28/02/2015 11:17

Rjae. You took it in there by telling people in a mocking fashion that Mr Tumble would come and explain things to them, dear.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 28/02/2015 11:18

MY DD is also severely disabled and I don't take that every well.

Wow this is like a western.

Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 11:25

Inkanta - my own children are always going to be my first priority. This child was or rather should have been the cm's first priority as she was the youngest of her mindees. As soon as I had the chance to speak to her I did - once I was in a position to and my own children were safely sorted.
As I said I'm a teacher and when working in a school I am solely responsible for the safety of the children in my classes. As I teach Science there are many potential risks - Bunsen burners / nasty chemicals, even sharp scalpels. If I was negligent during my working hours and a child had a preventable accident which led, or could lead to, an injury then at best I would have lost my job. At worst I could be sued or jailed and have to live with this injury on my conscious for the rest of my life. At no time during my working hours when I was directly responsible for these children and there were significant risks present did I turn away and leave them unsupervised. And before anyone jumps in with a flaming brand I did say "and there were significant risks present". In my case we are taking children near to fire, toxic chemicals and sharp blades. In the cm's case it's a chair and a 1 yr old. But the same logic applies.
I find it staggering actually that she would openly not perform her job to the best of her abilities in front of multiple witnesses when she must know what is at stake if she is found to be negligent in her duties. IF she had been standing behind the 1yr old or had been distracted by another mindee momentarily and the accident happened anyway then I wouldn't think much of it as she was at least trying to supervise as best she could under tricky circumstances. In this case she certainly couldn't prove that she was doing adequate supervision. This is the point. Many thanks to all posters (apart from the school yard bullies) for helping me get this clear in my own mind.
Insancerre - I really hope you are right Smile

OP posts:
IamSlave · 28/02/2015 11:31

IF she had been standing behind the 1yr old or had been distracted by another mindee momentarily and the accident happened anyway then I wouldn't think much of it as she was at least trying to supervise as best she could under tricky circumstances

I have seen odd tumble and had my own in these circs, usually child trying to get out from table on chair, and inadvertently pushing it back and over.

I would think nothing of this, natural accident.

Rjae · 28/02/2015 11:35

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IamSlave · 28/02/2015 11:39

I also feel the CM rather than giving a quick cuddle, should have been off her own back jumping up and being shocked, I would have jumped up, been worried and asked someone what happened.

Not a sort of quick cuddle, poor dear, anyway, I was saying topshop do have a good dress in at the moment.

I would be jumping up, did anyone see, what happened...

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 28/02/2015 11:40

Seriously LOL at someone making that comment and then taking the moral high ground.

IamSlave · 28/02/2015 11:41

I think the fall its nature but also her follow up, ie non existent are ground for grave concern. I suppose if she had jumped up, concerned, worried, asking what happened, looking over the child, checking her, then I suppose op would never have posted?

Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 11:42

Inkanta - you have started me thinking though that in future I will always put DD in a sling at playgroup so my hands are will be free to perform first aid should the need arise through another persons negligence. Must try CPR later on a big teddy - you never know, all that bouncing might help DD get off to sleep Wink

OP posts:
Rjae · 28/02/2015 11:42

Happyellowcar. What you have outlined is precisely what I have described as the law on negligence and which people saying the CM has the same duty of care as a parent, can't seem to grasp.

As a professional in the course of your employment, you have a higher duty of care than the parents picking their child up after school.

It wasn't an accident it was preventable, therefore it was negligence. The 'test of reasonableness' is that someone paid to supervise children should do precisely that.

Most CMs are doing a great job, and it's sad that some are not prepared to say this is unacceptable.

Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 11:44

Iamslave - Hmmm I guess I wouldn't feel so angry if she had tried to find out what happened and acted shocked . She literally just sat and gave her a cuddle.

OP posts:
Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 11:45

Rjae - you're spot on - sorry it took me so long to get there!

OP posts:
IamSlave · 28/02/2015 11:56

so she didn't proactively try and find out what happened so she couldn't even pass onto the parents, " dd had a nasty fall, i have been watching all day, all seems well but just to let you know"

Original poster
Happyyellowcar · 28/02/2015 11:59

Iamslave- no she wasn't proactive. When I approached her at the end she hadn't realised that the child had fallen on her head until I pointed it out to her.

OP posts:
salthill · 28/02/2015 12:04

Yanbu, the CM was neglectful. To leave a one year old to her own devices, climbing chairs is shocking. I wonder if the CM would be quite so lax if it was her own child. She gets paid to mind her charges not stand there gossiping. Unless a one year old is asleep, you really have to watch them constantly.