To report this childminder?

[Happyyellowcar]

Was at playgroup today with DD and DS1. A local childminder was also there with several small children in tow. I see her around a lot as she goes to many of the same groups as I do. One of her charges was maybe a year old and obviously just toddling. During snack time I was standing behind DS2, holding DD whilst chatting to a friend when suddenly the little toddler who happened to be sitting next to DS1, toppled head first off her chair and onto the wooden floor. She landed on her head and her neck actually crunched. I hadn't even noticed she was there until she fell off as I was trying to stop DS2 from pinching all the breadsticks. Another mum picked up the now screaming toddler and looked around for the childminder who was sitting quite far from the table, chatting yo her friend. She was actually turned away from the table and on the far side from where this toddler was sitting. She was passed the toddler and have her a cuddle but I'm sure didn't realise how serious her fall had been. I feel really incensed on behalf of the toddler's mother who must think that her child is in safe hands whilst she is at work. I've used a childminder myself with DS2 and the thought that this might have happened to him is sickening. No mother would have left their own child on a chair at such a young age without keeping a closer eye, surely? How else is she being neglectful? AIBU to want to report her?

YaNbu, really surprised at the responses! It's her job to look after children so that's what she should be doing. If you are at work being paid to do a job and you are not doing it adequately you would be pulled up on it. A 1 year old wouldn't be out of my sight.

She is looking after "several" children so even if she was the best CM in the world, accidents like this could happen. You can't watch several children, individually, every second of the day.
However you say she was chatting with a friend with her back to the dec- if she does this for the majority of the session, then I would report her as she isn't doing the job she is being paid for. If she is usually attentive then I certainly wouldn't report get.

YANBU. If you're looking after lots of kids you don't have time to chat like a mum or dad with just a few kids might. Very small kids need more supervision, especially on chairs. I never saw a parent at playgroup leave an unstable child unsupervised on a chair. Yes accidents happen but it's your job as the child's carer to try and prevent them with basic safety measures. Head injuries can be serious.

I don't know who you could report her to but personally as long as you're only giving a factual account of what happened I need see the harm of reporting, the agency involved can always choose not to follow it up if it isn't a significant allegation.

The thing is, toddlers fall... It's what they are good at. If she was truly neglectful, then you would see more examples than that (relatively small?) one.

I think you gave a really good example earlier of how easily accidents happen to those with the best of intentions. You described how your own son fell while on his step by the toilet. You said you were putting toothpaste on his brush so you couldn't have stopped him. Now I clearly don't know the details of that, but some people would not have been putting toothpaste on the brush of a child young enough to need a step, they would have stood with him. And perhaps they would have thought it was neglectful not to have done this in your case. But, you are clearly not a neglectful mother - these things happen. It is too easy to throw out cries of 'neglect' for relatively minor incidents. Have a bit of empathy for someone with so many to look after (unless of course your frequent sightings of her continues to expose examples of the children's well-being being compromised).
Perhaps also the next time, alert her (and whoever was supervising the group/ in charge of the premises) immediately to a potential head injury rather than waiting until the end of the session.

The problem isn't that the toddler fell, it's that the toddler fell because she wasn't paying attention as she should have been. Sometimes when you do everything right, or just have a momentary lapse of attention, accidents happen. BUT if the child's carer isn't even bothering to pay attention accidents are going to happen far more often and one of them could be serious. She's being paid to look after the child and should do that to the best of her ability, which means she shouldn't be turned away chatting.

Hi op, I agree with you that it's everyone's responsibility to keep children safe. Absolutley.

However let me share this with you.

I am a childminder.

A few years I was at toddler group and was keeping a weather eye on the mindees, I don't helicopter as they need space to play, and it's vital that children negotiate other children and toys without an adult constantly hovering. It inhibits their development.

Anyway a young mum literally sat by me and we were chatting about the children and she suddenly confided that she felt suecidal as her child didn't sleep and everyone else's did. She added that all the other mums seemed so confident but also all their toddlers slept well, ate well behaved well. Etc.

Mindees still playing happily so still keeping an eye I talked to this girl trying to reassure her and offer help and then got my phone out to put in her number as I said I would phone her and we should meet up.

At that point one of the mindees ran full tilt into another child.

I didn't actually see the collision but was there in seconds.

Can you see though that to another eye I was not only chatting but on my phone?

The child was fine and as per proceedure I filled out the usual forms and told mum.

Children fall all the time. It's part of discovering how to do things and how not to do things. The fall in itself is no hug deal and if the cm didn't see the fall she wouldn't have known the implications so why didn't you tell her?

There are dreadful parents, nurseries and cms out there and I have seen them all after 25 years as a parent.

This sounds like a fall that happens all of the time and a cm who was chatting as so all parents, nursery staff and teachers amongst other adults while working with their children.

Please tell the cm though if you are going to report her as she may need to talk to her mortgage provider. Ofsted couid suspend her registration while investigating and in my case my business pays our mortgage and keeps the roof over my children's heads.

I would absolutely try to alert the parents about this. As a parent, you accept that supervision at a childminder's might not be as close as supervision at home, as they have more children to look after. But a one year old does need to be watched all the time. If a CM can't do that, they shouldn't have the kid on their books.

TwoOddSocks

Teachers and nursery workers are paid to look after children too. If you really think a suits don't talk to other adults in the work place you must be living in a bubble.

Of course cms meet up with other adults during the working day.

Ofsted wouldn't pass any cm to continue working if all she did was sit in all day and have one to one with a child. That would be ridiculous.

The inspector asks for evidence of toddler groups, rhythm time, soft play etcetera.

Neglect is neglect. It's not having a passing chat with another adult while children play in playgroup. She wasn't chatting while they were running along the edge of a railway line!

Take a grip please

. I worked in reception class as a TA for years and trust me teachers talk a hell of a lot.

I don't think it was OK. She should have been paying attention to the little one. I agree she is not paid to sit and chat. She is at work while looking after the kids.
This is exactly why I don't use a cm - among the reasons anyway.

Perhaps the crunching sound was the toddler falling on a breadstick?
And OP, you are being ridiculous and spiteful.

You can watch a one year old all of the time? How many children do you have yourself?

I had 4 and at one point 2 under 3! If the one needed a happy change I might have conceivably taken my eye off the one year old.

Can you watch a child all the time?

How do you poo, cook, sleep? Have other children?

Yanbu. I used to take ds2 to a toddler group where there were lots of childminders. I wouldn't trust any of them with my dcs. They basically ignored their charges. One little boy used to cry a lot and they just sat there laughing at him saying he was unsociable. I think they used the group as a get together and the children they minded were left to their own devices. I wouldn't use most of my local childminders after what I witnessed there, on a weekly basis. One lady though was fabulous with her mindees, quite strict but full of cuddles and her eyes always on the children. So no op YADNBU.

Love during the times you can't watch the one year old, they need to be in a safe place. My house was never very well baby-proofed, so when I needed to poo/cook/change another child's nappy, they'd be in a playpen or cot. The level of supervision depends on the environment. In an environment like a toddler group, where there are chairs to climb on etc. a one year old needs to be watched all the time.

Lovemycats speaks the most sense on the thread so far.

It's hard to say without being there. Had she been chatting and not watching the children all morning, or was this the first time she had taken her eyes off them ... Not realising the little one had climbed on a chair (or been put there by another parent, as sometimes happens). The first is bad, the second is regrettable. I talk to other adults all the time at toddlers, but scan the room to watch the children at the same time.

Lettice thank you as sometimes happens on mumsnet you feel you have left RL and entered the twilight zone.

Nelly what a ridiculous and spiteful post. I consider our mindees old and present as still part of our family. Don't make such sweeping generalisations about a whole profession. It's a bit silly isn't it?

As for some of the other posters are you phoning SS on your friends and family if their 1 year old falls over?

It would be hilarious if you weren't discussing such serious topics as neglect which some seen to have no idea what that really means.

I hope somebody doesn't report you to SS the next time your toddler falls over. Or maybe it would be karma.

Anyway out now as suspect to this is a goady cm bashing thread and can't be bothered on my day off.

Hahahaha this is getting silly now. So not only am I neglectful but I should have supervised the child myself, tried to catch her and immediately had a conversation with the cm myself as soon as the incident happened despite looking after my own children during a busy snack time. I couldn't even physically get to the cm as there were so many people between me and her, not to mention the table itself. Of course I should have been doing her job for her so she could enjoy her nice chat ! What was I thinking? For the record I assumed that the mum her passed the child to her had told her about her falling on her head. At the end I happened to be getting my kids ready to go at the same time as her so I had the chance to double check that she did know how serious (to my eyes) it had been. I 'my glad I said something as she didn't know . I wasn't in any way spiteful and am not at all being spiteful by posting a genuine question on a chat forum. I think confronting her at the time in front of everyone would have been more "spiteful" but maybe also more truthful as I was really shocked by her total lack of attention to all her mindees . Yes all of them as they were all having snacks and she was turned say from the tables, chatting.
Re the neck crunching which some posters are a bit fixated on - when she landed her neck twisted to the side as she was actually upside down . The only way I can describe it is to say her neck crunched. Thank goodness she isn't paralysed! I can still see the image of it in my head. It's horrible.
Re my own neglect of DS1 who fell onto the loo - he was 3 and quite capable of standing unaided on a step without toppling off. He is short so needed a step to lean over the basin. He decided to mess about which is why he fell - it's a different situation to a 1 yr old who genuinely can't be trusted to sit unaided on a chair without close supervision.
I have been known to sit and chat at playgroups by the way - esp when preggers with DD but DS2 was 2.5 and was ok to climb in and off chairs. I still managed to watch him though... Anyway , guess I will bear all your comments in mind as, you guessed it, am off to playgroup!!

And once again let me say this is not a cm-bashing thread as I have used them too and was v happy with their care. I would also be annoyed if it was a mum but somehow the fact she is getting paid to look after someone else's kids but didn't makes it worse. In my humble opinion.

A lot of bitterness towards childminders on here. The fact that they can visit playgroups and talk to other Mums seems to really annoy some people.

Money for nothing?

You become a childminder then. I bet you wouldn't last a week.

So she ignores ALL her mindees at snack time too? Well you are definitely Not being unreasonable.. I speak as an ex CM\nanny.

Still wondering how this reporting is going to go...
OP: Hello, is that Ofsted (I'm guessing?), I want to report a childminder for not watching a child well enough
Ofsted: Um, ok, can we start with the name of this person
OP: No idea, but you should really do something about it.
Ofsted: .......(click)

YABU

Teachers don't look after one year olds. A one year old needs an eye kept on them when they're not in a baby proofed area and when they're eating. You can talk to other adults taking care of a kid but if that kid is young and clambering over chairs they might fall off you need to face them so that you can see what they're doing. Keeping them safe is the very minimum your paid to do.

I was talking about my bad experience with my childminder and the guilt I feel at leaving my 1 yr old in her charge after hearing from others that she was not the sort of person they would want to mind their kids. But I don't think he came to any real harm and I would never have expected her to have her eyes on him at all times. Under her care he got a bloody ear at mums and tots (quite nasty) and maybe 4 big bumps on the head over the 6 months but she always reported it properly to me and I always told her not to worry, it was inevitable it would happen at times. I know myself what little kids are like and he was at an accident prone stage. So that in itself would not make me think she was neglectful. It was other people saying to me that she really didn't care about her charges at mums and tots. Making it seem like they were a hassle for interrupting her chats with her childminder friends, and a visible coldness towards the kids she minds that is the problem. Accidents always happen, but some childminders should simply not be minding kids and are doing it for the wrong reasons. My current nanny, I can see how warm she is with both of them, how gutted she is if anything is bothering either child. And how excited she is to see them the first day each week. She cares for them. And that is the sort of person who is suitable to mind children. So to the OP, I would probably not report because she didn't do anything that was truly a problem in itself. But in the same vein, I would feel very bad for parents who were using her without realising she didn't care about the kids she minds (assuming that is the case).