Friend said this was pfb

[holidayroad]

I was talking to my friend the other day, she asked what schools I put down for my DD's primary school admission (she starts reception in September).

The schools near me are all oversubscribed and we have visited 5 of them. I explained that we had struggled to narrow down our choice after visiting the first 5, so arranged to visit them all again just before the closing date.

One school refused to allow us a 2nd visit - now I appreciate that it is a big school and a lot of parents want their DC to go there, but I used their refusal to allow us a 2nd visit as a basis to rule that school out as I feel if they are not prepared to go above and beyond for us on the selection basis then they cannot possibly be the best school for my DC.

My friend has DC at this school and said I was being ridiculously pfb to expect them to arrange a 2nd visit.

I think this is too important a decision to be taken lightly.

So over to you, who is BU?

Completely agree, MrsHathaway on the unfairness of needing knowledge not readily available, but the OP is still absolutely adamant to cut off her nose to spite her face, so I doubt more knowledge would have done much good.

Schools will have to "accommodate" her dd, schools must make her feel "wanted" and now she wants to deny her poor dd going to school at all to wait to get the school she wants.

Oh dear OP. Just as we all predicted....

It's a real shame you weren't in a position to take advice before you had to submit your application. It appals me that you can only find out this crucial information by osmosis. Every application pack should spell out in black and white the implications of (a) not listing a school you are likely to get into, (b) not using all your choices, etc.

Actually, my local authority has a whole page on their website devoted to myth busting. And it's in hard copy at children's centre's etc too.

I've been through similar OP; only put down one choice on my application because ds1 went to the nursery and we could see the school from the front door; we lived on the same road (Trafford) and we were certain that he would get a place there. Surprise surprise, the sibling rule meant that we didn't get a place there, and the two other local schools were full too, so ds got a place 2 miles away at an undersubscribed school in an area I wasn't familiar with. We turned down the place and went on waiting lists for the local schools.

After several stress filled, horrible months of waiting, ds1 was offered a place locally and we accepted. He was really happy there and I learnt from my mistake. We'll be going through the same procedure next year for ds3, and even though he has 2 siblings at the school I'm not going to just assume he'll get in.

I don't think the op is coming back.

I think she really has been unfairly seduced by the pile of nonsense spouted by government, about choice. That's not really her fault.
In reality, as has been said by numerous posters, there is no choice unless the schools are undersubscribed.

Come back op and tell us what position you are on the wait lists, and we can advise accordingly. I bet loads of other parents, who were also in the dark about the realities of the admissions system, are feeling like you are now. Why would you know? And it was too late for you to take the advice up thread, as you'd already submitted your application.

Penguins - so it is possible. That kind of information sharing should be standard for all LAs, shouldn't it? SeeMNHQ thread about improving the process, in which I am already ranting about dissemination of information.

I dunno, I'm starting to despair at the system, and that's speaking as one who has got into Leafy Outstanding twice, in oversubscribed years.

If you think you know how the system works, why would you seek

(sorry)

... out information to prove yourself wrong?

Exactly, if you think you know how the system works (ie parental choice), why would you bother to do anything other than put your favourite schools down in order?
It's an easy mistake to make unless you have been, or know someone else, who has been bitten on the bum by it.

Surely no one's that naive, Banana? Even disengaged parents must pick up that there is a process involved in getting your child a school place that you are at least moderately happy with?

I agree it looks complicated and that some councils are worse than others at explaining and demystifying what's involved - but parents who have views on schools (as the OP clearly does) really should inform themselves about what they need to do. It's not a 'game', as the OP seems to think - it's a tightly managed, rules-based process. Anxiety-provoking, undoubtedly, if you live in an area with poor or over-subscribed schools. But that makes it all the more important to get clued up on exactly what's what.

In the OP's own words:

*"I think this is too important a decision to be taken lightly."

"THis is a very hard decision for us"

"I feel anxious enough as it is about the whole thing"*

However much she's trying to style it out now, and possibly being a little condescending to those who are trying to advise her, I think she must be feeling pretty upset about the outcome today. So, I feel sorry for her because she has messed up big time.

It's actually not that easy a mistake to make, bananayellow. The councils send out information packs well ahead of time which outline the process to be followed; and nurseries are very hot on making sure everybody who might need help with the forms are talked through it.
The only people I've ever known to fall through the cracks are those pretty much like the op, who consider it a "game" to be played.
Furthermore, a game they imagine they can win.

I disagree that it's a hard system to navigate. You get your first choice unless it's oversubscribed and then children are offered places in order by judging what the admissions criteria are.

The OP visited five primary schools. Five! And then wanted to go back and see them all again.

That is not someone who isn't interested in researching. I think she willfully chose to ignore the facts because she didn't like them.

I would expect a second visit.

not sure I would have rejected a school just on this, but it may be a factor.

Thinking back to when I did this, even back in the early 00s the presentations at the start of tours included nuts and bolts of the admissions process. For OP to have gone to 5 and not realised the basic point (that it's all about how well you fit the criteria) is staggering, but I suppose it can happen.

OP: if you are still reading, please do not ignore what is being said now. The only thing that matters is what you do next, and the only 'gaming' you can do is really get to understand the system so you understand what will work and what really makes no difference. Myths and the idea there can be an 'accommodation' outside the rules really aren't going to help you.

And if you decide to wait until your May born DC reaches statutory school age, that means starting from scratch with an application for a year 1 place then (there is no carry over from Reception to Year 1). You might decide that is what you want to do. But do make that an active decision, not just a consequence of not understanding that bit of how it all works.

"The game"

Jesus wept. Your poor DD.

I remember having a second visit to a school for my kids, my son and DIL had a second visit to a school, don't think it is unusual. When I went for a 2nd visit I think there were four or maybe five families there so not that hard to arrange. I don't think all parents would want a 2nd visit and if they can group them it isn't a big deal.

When my son and DIL had a 2nd visit a TA showed them round, the HT showed them round the first time for part of the visit and a year six pupil for part of it.

If they want us they should make us feel wanted.
Priceless. You are in for one massive rude awakening once your DD does start school, even if it's at a school that reassured you and offered you a second visit.

I have a snaking suspicion this thread is a clever wind up. Not enough to report though!

A useful wind up if so, Augusta. It helped clear up a few myths I think. I do know people who have done what OP did though, so not an unheard off scenario.

I actually think that not allowing a second visit is a positive thing.
It shows their priority is working with the children on their roll, rather than marketing

I think I agree with Augusta. You've kind of got to hope that no one is quite as arrogant as the OP.

Someone I work with moved house during childs first year at school. She couldn't get him into the school she wanted, was told there were ten or so children ahead of them. She waited and kept checking, in Feb was told no chance, a week later she was offered a place starting after half term. It can happen. Alot can depend on catchment area.

One of my kids didn't get our first choice of grammar school, I think there were 4 ahead of him but I was told there was a good chance as there was a university and a teaching hospital in the catchment area and apparently both had staff who would move in the summer as parents got promotions at other unis/hospitals and then gave up their places. He had a place by June.

I kept two of mine at home till they were starting year 4 as I didn't like the local primary. They did fine when they started school.

OP its not the end of the world even though it can feel like it sometimes.

Good luck with that OP - I was in exactly the same position as you last year. On the day the allocations had gone out and he didn't get a place at his chosen school I called and put him on the waiting list. He went straight in at number 2 on the waiting list. By the end of the month he had moved down to number 5, and a month later was at number 11.

It is not a first come, first served basis. If someone moves to the area and are closer to the school goes on the waiting list, they go above your DC. Same if they have siblings in the school, or if they're a looked after child. They will all go above your child.

You have pretty much no chance at appeal, it's so strict at foundation level due to class size restrictions that there is no room for movement at all. You have to have a valid reason to appeal, not just 'I want my child to go here', and the decision is only likely to be overturned if the board missed something when making their decision the first time.

You need to be realistic. Your chances of getting your child into the school you want if they have already been refused a place is very, very unlikely. It's not a game, it's a fact.

I would seriously be considering other options if I were you.

You really need to rethink this OP. For goodness sake accept what you have been offered and like previous posters have said you can still go on waiting lists elsewhere. Honestly a 'game plan' doesn't come into it.

Remembered to come and check back, and the result was as predicted. OP do be aware that if you don't get given the place by September then you may find that a remarkable number of kids with special requirements may end up taking the odd places that do become available, particularly if you are chasing a sought after school.