To still demand perfect table manners? (teenagers)

[ShaynePunim]

Not sure who's BU - me or my kids.

They're 14 and 12. My mealtimes rules have always been:

1. Back straight
2. No elbows on the table.
3. Elbows tucked in.
4. Bring cutlery to mouth, not the other way around.
5. No reloading of fork while still chewing previous mouthful.

There are other rules I'm sure but those are the ones I constantly have to fight about!

This is the way I have been brought up but as far as I can remember my parents never had to fight for it, by the time I was 5 or so it had been drilled into me and now it would take me an actual EFFORT to eat all slouched down with my elbows on the table etc.

So I don't understand why it's such a bloody struggle to get my kids to eat like civilised human beings!

My argument is that manners are very important and I want them, when they are adults, to be able to feel comfortable and confident in any environment, and not behave like Neanderthals.

I also find it unpleasant to have to watch them eat slouched down.

My 14 y.o. is OK...whenever I say 'sit up straight' or 'elbows in', she just does it.

My 12 y.o. argues with me over it! His arguments are: 1. we are at home so they should be allowed to relax and feel comfortable and not be harassed. 2. Manners are important but I don't realise that they (my kids) already have much better manners than most kids they know so I should give them a break. 3. He thinks I am showing poor manners by criticizing them! (But I point out I am not merely criticizing for the sake of it, I am bringing them up!).

So anyway, AIBU?

I would LIKE to give them a break (it's not bloody fun for me!), only if someone could reassure me that I have sown the seeds of good manners already and if they ever get invited to tea by the Queen they'll be just fine.

But I'm scared of letting go and failing them by not ensuring they are well brought up.

Bogeyface "boys tend to be hungrier than girls"

I think it is actually the opposite. Females need to eat more often than males in my experience.

Table manners are best modelled, not imposed.

Mealtimes in our home are always been joyful and respectful. My children know how to eat with chopsticks, a fork and spoon as in SE Asia, how to eat with no cutlery in an Islamic banana leaf restaurant, how to share big platters, and understand how to act in a silver service restaurant.

Food should be playful and joyful, eaten with respect to others- but all this can be achieved without a battle.

Homework at our local girls's school!

Oops, I do wish I could spell check and correct, a rogue 's' there! In case you can't read to, it says Please remind your daughter rouse a knife and fork correctly.

Hold the knife in the right hand with the handle in the palm of the hand and the fork in the other hand with the prongs pointing downwards.

Your rules are not to over the top except rule 5. Never heard that before and seems unnecessary. Could you not just tell speedy eaters to slow down and enjoy their food?!

My table manner rules are:

1. Don't speak with mouth full of food.
2. Don't lean across people - ask them to pass salt / pepper etc
3. Arrive at table when requested (no 'ok, will be there in a minute!). Wait intil everyone is seated to start. Ask to leave table when everyone else is finished
4. Use both knife and fork to eat
5. Say please and thank you
6. Don't say something is disgusting if you don't like it! Let others enjoy their food!

OP I think your children will be grateful in older life that you taught them manners. I was brought up the same and another one that we had was "please may I leave the table" if we wanted to be excused.

I am horrified by some people I see eating.

bigbluestars - perhaps I'm having a sour day, but I don't believe that mealtimes in your household are always joyful and respectful. 'Usually' perhaps. I am curious about your reasons for telling us that your DC know how to eat with the correct etiquette almost all round the world.

For those of us who struggle, perhaps an explanation of how you have achieved this exemplary state of affairs would be useful.

chocoluvva- I can't remember the last time there was a cross word in our home. I don't need you to believe me.

THe reasons I mention other cultures are that our definitions of "manners" are not universal.

Exactly- there's a world of difference between manners and etiquette. IMO good manners, ie being considerate are universal.

FWIW - I can't remember the last time a cross word was said in the choco household either - but our mealtimes are often not 'joyful' or 'playful'.

Teenagers eh?

What happens if you're left handed does the left hand get smacked until it holds the fork in its hand?

It isn't used at all in some cultures.

Teenagers are brilliant!! The best years yet.

My argument is that manners are very important and I want them, when they are adults, to be able to feel comfortable and confident in any environment, and not behave like Neanderthals.

Oh really. Agree with someone upthread. Do you know how to behave at a Chinese or Sikh table? What a load of rubbish. Or just so narrow minded. Do you think your children might never work overseas? I would confess I have no idea how to eat politely with my hands and flat bread. (Saw it on a chef abroad with the Scottish sikh chef).

Maybe not open the mouth while eating because it's really quite gross. Or my 3yo favourite, spitting out food and offering it to us. These are things that are probably not acceptable in any culture.

I'm thinking of my racist MIL who thinks no one knows how to use chopsticks in the UK and it's not rude at a Chinese table to not use one correctly.

I have been teaching DH to correctly eat a bowl of rice for years. He just can't manage it. He either picks the rice up with the chopstocks or slurps. I bet you don't know how either.

Blimey, really? Good manners are important but not reloading your fork and all that stuff? Sounds excessive. I think if I was a teenager and you were my mum, I'd be getting a stomach ulser with anxiety over getting nagged at mealtimes. It all sounds stressful and like you can' trust enjoy each other's company.

Trust your kids - they probably know what they should do by that age, but if it were me, I'd let them relax a bit - and you!

If I were your children I'd never invite friends round for dinner, what a miserable experience.

We have three very simple table rules:
No eating with your mouth full
No open-mouthed chewing
Eat with a knife and fork

Oh and ask to leave the table, don't just wander off.

Never got the elbows thing, even weirder that you require their elbows to be at a certain angle!

I find it horrid watching some people eat. Personally, I am always grateful when children and adults have good table manners.

As long as people don't chew like a washing machine, eat off of their knife, use cutlery the right way I'm pretty happy. I was brought up with strict manners and will use them when in company or in a restaurant but at home I'm happy eating dinner on my knee. You should be able to relax at home.

To the OP and the other poster who said something like "Keep wondering where I am going wrong and why my mother seemed to civilise me with relative ease!!" - comes down to the temperament of the child. Some will obey rules for the sake of a quiet life, others feel the need to test every boundary going...

Wi never understood the elbow thing either. If the table is that tight it makes sense. Otherwise it's just following rules for following sake. I would only follow it if I unserstand why? Same with enforcing it on my children.

It's a temperament thing definitely. I hate it when the only reason for being told the only reason for doing something is tradition. We move on ffs. Are we supposed to think cleaning the queen's poo and pee an honour anymore? Another pet hate I have is 'I have been brought up this way'. Really, you eat after the men of the house do you?

I am sure, at this point, they actually do know your rules, and would apply them at more formal meals than nightly dinner at home. Step back a bit and concentrate on just conversing and listening to them.

Eat with your mouth closed
Hold Knife and fork
Don't bite off the fork
No dancing at the table! (I know, aren't I grumpy!)
No speaking with mouth full
Sometimes on at OH as much as kids. I hate seeing his parents eat, makes me want to hurl. They all moan at me for moaning at them. However,we were in Wagamamas the other day and the older teenager along the table was stabbing his food like a caveman, it was awful. Even DS noticed! 1 of my friends insists that using a tablecloth helps but I can't be doing with all that washing and ironing!

Once, in a Chinese restaurant a waiter discreetly offered me a knife and fork saying that he hoped I didn't mind him mentioning it, but he had noticed I was finding the chopsticks difficult - he had probably overheard me saying how I feared I might be there all night struggling - and that I was welcome to use a knife and fork if I preferred. Good manners on his part IMO. He was discreet and sensitive (probably laughing in private ) but doing his best to make all his diners comfortable. A case of good manners trumping etiquette IMO.

teapot what do you mean stabbing like cavemen? Food on a plate I served only with a spoon in Hong Kong. So it would be really difficult to eat with both knife and fork. (I assume the equivalent here is one fork). People I met from mainland use chopsticks for food on plates.

chocoluvva definitely good manners are about being considerate.