To still demand perfect table manners? (teenagers)

[ShaynePunim]

Not sure who's BU - me or my kids.

They're 14 and 12. My mealtimes rules have always been:

1. Back straight
2. No elbows on the table.
3. Elbows tucked in.
4. Bring cutlery to mouth, not the other way around.
5. No reloading of fork while still chewing previous mouthful.

There are other rules I'm sure but those are the ones I constantly have to fight about!

This is the way I have been brought up but as far as I can remember my parents never had to fight for it, by the time I was 5 or so it had been drilled into me and now it would take me an actual EFFORT to eat all slouched down with my elbows on the table etc.

So I don't understand why it's such a bloody struggle to get my kids to eat like civilised human beings!

My argument is that manners are very important and I want them, when they are adults, to be able to feel comfortable and confident in any environment, and not behave like Neanderthals.

I also find it unpleasant to have to watch them eat slouched down.

My 14 y.o. is OK...whenever I say 'sit up straight' or 'elbows in', she just does it.

My 12 y.o. argues with me over it! His arguments are: 1. we are at home so they should be allowed to relax and feel comfortable and not be harassed. 2. Manners are important but I don't realise that they (my kids) already have much better manners than most kids they know so I should give them a break. 3. He thinks I am showing poor manners by criticizing them! (But I point out I am not merely criticizing for the sake of it, I am bringing them up!).

So anyway, AIBU?

I would LIKE to give them a break (it's not bloody fun for me!), only if someone could reassure me that I have sown the seeds of good manners already and if they ever get invited to tea by the Queen they'll be just fine.

But I'm scared of letting go and failing them by not ensuring they are well brought up.

The thing was to hold the spoon sideways and 'sip' the soup with my GF too - I'd forgotten that. And every dinner involved soup then meat or fish, two veg and potatoes. Eaten at 'lunchtime'. Aww - fond memories....

Obviously if you're eating soup from a soup bowl at the table that's how you eat it. And it shouldn't make any noise.

Mug of Heinz tomato and a hunk of bread- all bets are off.

Well in Fr. you don't have salad WITH your main meal either before or after. And they used to look down exceedingly at people eating at any other time than at the 3 main mealtimes especially if they were eating IN THE STREET .

It's changed a bit now (they eat shxx like Mcd's.) But I know adults who were so traumatised by being made to eat in a regimented way as children that they NEVER sit at a dinner table at all.

Who invents these bloody stupid rules?

Good question Random I reckon it's control freaks who were 'controlled' nagged by their parents,see nothing wrong in it and continue the torture through their kids.

If they obeyed the rules then mealtimes would be pleasant. They need to learn that. Don't back down.
I had more rules then that growing up. We also learned the appropriate dining rules for different cultures and good types.

So obedience is more important than being happy and enjoying your food is it GrinAndTonic? If you have problems with your teeth as well?

DH has a control freak mummy.
He never ever wants to spend any time at her house. Happy to see her anywhere else but he says being in her home gives him a compulsion to run screaming out the door.
She had rigid rules on table manners.
We don't.

Sorry haven't rtft in it's entirety but yabu. This sounds horribly formal and regimented.

Gosh this is a tricky one, i wanted to say YABU but only a little as perhaps at home they could relax the rules. But then on the same thought me and DH won't be eating food while watching TV once our DD is born, we've agreed how can we expect her to learn to eat in a restaurant when she's little if we don't show her how it's done.

Maybe now they are older though they should just be allowed to get on with it?

If good manners become second nature then there should be no issues. How to sit correctly and hold and use cutlery appropriately are basic table manners.
I'm not sure what the teeth reference is in relation to though.

I think YABU to enforce to the extent you do, but not to have taught them table manners.

Personally, I normally eat with my elbows on the table (The horror I know!) because we only ever have dinner with close friends and normally we're all nattering so much that arms flail and etiquette (other than the basics, no speaking with food in your mouth etc) often goes out of the window. I do know how to behave in a civilised setting, but meal times for me should be about fun and enjoying food and company not about remembering not to load my fork at the wrong moment.

I have HUGE issues with eating around people and am socially anxious especially around meal times, if I'm around people I feel will judge me then I spend so much time worrying about where my elbows are that I forget to eat and stress myself out, please don't nag to the extent where they associate meal times with stress.

Mymum was mad on table manners and as a result I eat nicely, I will try my best to teach dd too.
Dh is the opposite-fork in right hand, no knife, elbow on table and a shoveller!
Thing is though he is very nice and complimentary, great conversation so you end up forgetting all the rest!

YABU are they in the army or something. It's one thing to insist on no burping, slurping etc but to try and control when they pick up their next fork full is ridiculous

Can someone explain to me why it's rude to put your elbows on the table?
Not chewing with your mouth open, being polite, respecting your neighbour's space are all obvious.
I don't get rules that are just there for the sake of it. Why should you keep your knife in your right hand? Why?
If anyone dared to tell me off for eating left handed they'd be removing said cutlery from their behind.

One of the things I always find myself saying, to the DS's in particular is "Its a fork, not a shovel!!" because they have a tendency to go head down like a pig at a trough. But then I have discovered that boys do tend to be hungrier than girls, no idea why though! The girls dont eat anywhere near as fast or as much, the boys eat like it might be their last meal! Not just my boys either, every family I know with a mix of sexes say the same, yet none of them are overweight.

I would let go on the "back straight, elbows in" thing, unless they are poking each other in the face! And also, the "dont load your fork" one too, surely thats how most people eat, you load your fork ready for the next mouthful?

I understand your fear though. As a single parent you are judged more, as much as I wish it wasnt true, it is. I found that I was so paranoid about being judged and found wanting that I got a bit mad about things like manners etc. Relaxing a bit and realising that while basic table manners are essential, you can let some things slide makes life a lot nicer for all of you :)

DH sometimes rests one elbow on the table and eats with only a fork. I wouldn't comment on it but it gives me the impression that he's not enjoying the meal - wot I have cooked - and I suppose it puts a barrier between you and the person sitting on that side of you.

I think it's lovely when people treat mealtimes as a shared sociable time and respect the fact that someone has taken the time to prepare food.

The 'teeth thing' Grin was a reference to an earlier poster who said that her child has problems actually eating with her mouth closed because her teeth are too large for her mouth.

What I find the saddest thing about this is the way children are being referred to in the the same way as animals are; IMO it's dehumanising to expect 'obedience' all the time, it's as if dcs have no feelings and can't be asked pleasantly to do something.

the food we eat has changed. So has table manners and etiquette. They always varied from family to family anyway.

Wow, that does sound a bit rigid. We sit round the table for meals but I've never given much direction on 'table manners', preferring to just lead by example and hope they follow (DC are 6 and 8).

So I'm not bothered about elbows/posture but I would encourage them to ask people to pass things rather than reaching across, ask to get down etc. I might say a word about shovelling/gulping, but not often.

True Seeker33

As I said previously I've eaten with very 'posh' families and they are no different to anyone else.

Whenever I read threads where people are talking about their rigid table manners, it suggests some kind of control issue IMO.

All this 'holding your fork wrong' is ridiculous. I hold mine 'wrong' because of the way my hands are - no amount of training would make it comfortable or painless for me to hold it normally.

Bringing your fork to your mouth... who watches others eat for long enough to care?

Elbows on the table... I follow this one as it was ingrained into me but I don't really get it unless there's a load of you crowded around a tight table.

No reloading of fork while chewing... this one made me actually laugh. On what planet does this cause issues? Again, just seems like a control thing.

If these minute details that have no bearing on you whatsoever (a general "you", not just the OP) have you clutching your pearls, maybe you're a little too delicate to eat around others?

YANBU.

I am just like you - was brought up that way and it wasn't a 'struggle' or 'effort' to do it - it was automatic and still is. Certainly doesn't get in the way of having a fun, relaxed time at the table.

I share your struggles, though. My DCs are younger ,but in my view should still be perfectly capable of all this stuff without endless reminders (which I also loathe dishing out). DS still eats with his mouth open which is particularly unpleasant and, to me, unfathomable (I would have to make a conscious effort to do it).

Keep wondering where I am going on and why my mother seemed to civilise me with relative ease!!

I really wish I could impose number 5 on my DH. Drives me mad!

Also not leaving the table until everyone has finished.

Not so bothered about backs and elbows personally.

where I am going WRONG obv (not on!).