To be fucked off at the fact that people won't talk about things?

[cailindana]

I'm a talker. I talk things through, sort things out, move on.

It seems that no one else in my life, bar perhaps my sister, is like that.

My parents won't talk about anything. Everything is passive-aggressive hints, sniffy one-liners. Anything that puts them in a bad light or makes them in any way uncomfortable is absolutely off limits and Must Not Ever Be Mentioned. My sister suffered a birth injury that caused her to be disabled. Did they ever once talk to her about it, tell her what had happened and what was wrong with her? Never, not once. They never ever spoke to their own daughter about her disability. When I tried to talk about being abused, it was all "you're making me feel guilty, get over it." It's never been mentioned since.

Two years ago, a long term friend and I fell out. I fucked up, I apologised, offered to talk it through, she ignored me. The friendship went very quiet. As usual, I made the first move towards reconciliation the other day, and offered to talk about what had happened. Oh no, lets not talk about it, let's just "move on." I will move on, but I am fully aware that her angry reaction was down to a heap of things she's angry about that she won't talk about. Those things are not resolved and I fully expect the friendship to go wrong again. If I don't understand what's bothering her, how can I help? How can the friendship ever improve if we don't communicate?

A different friend fucked up, I was pissed off, brought it up with him in order to get it all out in the open and sort it out. He responded briefly, then went silent. Is still silent, nearly a year later. Just won't talk to me. So, that's the end of that, years of friendship closed down.

My DH has kept silent about things for years, bottled things up. I got so fed up with it (and other things) I was on the edge of leaving. He finally opened up. Says he feels like someone has lifted the world from his shoulders. Side effect is, he cries a lot now - he can't get through even the opening credits of Call the Midwife without being in floods. But he says he feels like he's actually engaging with the world now, looking it in the eye. He talks about everything and I find his thoughts fascinating, it's like meeting a whole new wonderful person.

I see it again and again her on MN too - partners who simply won't talk to each other. It causes such misery.

I don't advocated endlessly wittering on about problems. But I do think that if something's bothering you, there is absolutely no point in storing it up and getting wound up about it - say something for god's sake!

AIBU?

I agree with you that a lot of people seem to have problems that could easily be fixed by better communication and I do sometimes just want to say 'oh, just to talk to them!' We do all process things differently though and I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way. Occasionally I become aware that someone is being a bit distant and it doesn't really bother me much. I actually tend to assume that they have something going on in their own life and they'll contact me when they're ready.

I had a friend that was very proud of being a 'talker'. In reality, her 'talking things through' was cornering someone and battering them verbally with all the things they'd done wrong and denying any wrongdoing on her own part at all. It was extremely unpleasant. I am in no way suggesting you do this, I've seen you around MN (am a lurker) and you always seem like a very measured poster so I'm sure you're not at all but I don't think this is uncommon.

I don't really want my friends to tell me problems they have with me if I'm honest. The friend I referenced above mostly said stuff that couldn't be changed and it left me feeling terrible. In contrast, if someone said 'that comment hurt my feelings', then that would be useful to know.

For the record, I have only ever cut people off once in my life, a friendship group I was involved with. They knew why, they were deeply toxic and caused me a nervous breakdown (there were other factors in my life but they were the catalyst). I had to avoid them for my own sanity.

What you're describing in your family sounds very annoying though. If someone is making it clear that they're irritated and won't discuss it then that's not on really.

Cailin: it sounds like she dumped you. Maybe because you kept insisting in trying to discuss a problem she was having in terms of yourself. If
I had issues to deal with and a friend that couldn't accept I didn't want to discuss them with her, to the point she thought the problem WAS her, i would shut her out because i wouldnt need the additional stress.

If you the friendship has restarted, her issues must be resolved, and she has time for the hard work of being your friend. For goodness sake, look to the future and stop carping on about the past.

Sucks - how can I analyse what I did wrong if no one will tell me? Do grown adults really just decide 'I don't want to be friends with her' and walk off?
Martyr - I have no interest in telling anyone what's wrong with them. I just want to figure out what went wrong.

Walking away from a years-long friendship is not pretty malicious! Not as a concept.

It is a choice. A legitimate choice. Usually a painful and much-thought-about decision.

Would you say walking away from a years-long marriage was malicious?

To be clear, with the female friend we were close, we've travelled long distances to visit each other and she's never seemed to have a problem with me. It was just bam, no more contact. I can't imagine doing that to anyone. I didn't even do it go my bullying arsehole of a sister, I tried to work it out (without success).

Yes, just walking out on a years-long marriage with no explanation is very malicious I think.

Of course there was a reason why they walked away from your friendship and they didn't just think 'I just don't want to be friends anymore' but they didn't want to tell you why or talk about it.

You talk about 'grown adults' but you want to control 'grown adults' and take away their choices and you want them all to think, act and react as you do.

I think this might well be your answer to question 'how could they walk away form me?'

So would you just walk out on a marriage, no explanation, sucks?

i am this kind of person
this thread is exhausting!
i would definitely need a few years break

Talking about things isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, cailindana. Straight off the top of my head, I can think of one time I did try to say what was wrong and it backfired badly. When my first daughter was born I didn't breastfeed (due to previous breast reduction surgery and worries re milk supply), and I felt that one friend, who was the only person I knew then with children,and who was very pro-breastfeeding made a few thoughtless and hurtful remarks about it. They weren't huge in the scheme of things but she really pissed me off. I didn't freeze her out exactly, but I didn't instigate contact for a bit. Then when she emailed to ask if anything was up, a couple of months later, I decided to be honest and say why I hadn't been in touch as much. It was, I thought, a frank email but still friendly and with no sort of blaming tone - in fact I think I even admitted that my own feelings of defensiveness were partly to blame.

But she was really hurt and angry - for a start she denied ever even saying the things she did, or then conceded that if she did say them, she definitely wouldn't have meant them like I thought, and how could I think she was the sort of person who would judge a new mother, I surely didn't know her at all, etc etc. Our friendship never fully recovered! If I'd just stewed a bit in silence, then shelved it and got on with things (which is my usual MO) we've have been fine.

DH and I both grew up in families where any topic of importance is brushed under the carpet. We both had mostly unsatisfying relationships as we didn't know how to be open with another person. We both sought therapy and now have a very close relationship where we can discuss anything. It really surprises me how well we know each other and how satisfying our relationship is.

Unfortunately we both still struggle to be open with our family and long term friends (we both chose friends who are quite closed/ distant themselves), the old comfortable patterns are the easy way, and our families react badly when we act differently.

Looking back now, I have lost a few good friends over the years, as I would never talk to them about irritations or disagreements. I was too embarrassed to admit that I cared, and to receive any criticism from them. I would just pretend everything was ok and try to carry on as normal, or cut them out my life. When a friend tried to talk to me about a way I had hurt her, I was mortified with my own behaviour and found the intimate conversation difficult, so I just stopped speaking to her. I feel like an idiot now.

I don't know why your friends don't want to talk about things. If they can literally forget about an incident and move on then I would try to do the same, but if they do harbour hidden resentments then the friendship will probably come to a close.

I suppose the important thing is to start new friendships in an open way so you meet other talkers.

It can be terribly intimidating for some people - particularly if they are true introverts - to be bullied into 'sharing.' I had it for years when my father died as a teenager. I didn't share/cry with the family group/bloody talk about it enough. It was unbelievably crap to be criticised for not being 'open' when all I wanted to think, feel and cope.

Similarly, my sis is currently very ill, unable to function normally, unable to look after her young children and having an appalling time of it. She closes up to deal with it, she copes better that way. We couldn't be closer, have lived together for years when younger, and I know what's going on with her. I wouldn't dream of insisting she 'shares' to make me feel better.

I feel terribly upset that I can't help her more, I love her so much and wish she wanted to talk more. But I'm not 'fucked off' about it. I totally respect her way of dealing with the horrible situation she's in. She knows I'm here all the time, when she's ready.

Oh, and she doesn't lack emotional intelligence, or moral fibre either, for the record.

I'm sorry Cailin, you're obviously very hurt and I can understand why. It might be that she's afraid of what you might say, or even that she's afraid of what she might say.

I have always tried to work things out with people. The only time I didn't (that I mentioned previously) was because it was so incredibly painful that I couldn't talk about it. I was under a lot of pressure in all areas of my life and that probably influenced that. Also, I didn't see how the problem we had was fixable whether it was talked through or not.

I hope you manage to get some closure in some way, you sound so hurt.

Cailin - actually your post said that 'walking out of a years-long relationship was pretty malicious'. You didn't add the caveat 'without explanation'. I responded to your post and said as a concept it's not malicious, then posed the question about marriage.

I'll answer your question though I think it's going right off track: I'd walk out of a years-long marriage if it was making me desperately unhappy. I'd walk out of a years-long marriage without explanation if I was being abused or treated terribly and would not feel I owed any kind of explanation.

People walk away from long relationships because they can't cope with them anymore. They hold no value any more, they are not healthy or happy.

Your 'friends' decided not to discuss and dissect the issues in your relationship, either because they didn't want to hurt you, or because they were too angry, ill, exhausted or busy with other issues in life, or because they thought it would be fruitless or because they were afraid of being bulldozed and pressured by you to 'talk it through' even though they had made their decision and didn't have the energy.

I feel that a lot of people that say they are good at talking things through aren't so great at the listening part of the conversation. I know the people within my family and friends who say they are good at talking things through normally enter conversations with a set of preconceived notions that they stick to in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I find it stressful and frustrating to be made to have a conversation where I know that I won't be listened too and I'll be expected to agree with everything being said.

I can see where you are coming from and your family situation sounds very difficult op.

But. I am not convinced that 'talking about your problems' always has the desired effect. I have had people in my family very good at communicating their view of their problems, loudly and repeatedly, but not so good at reaching a resolution. Some things are better not said especially if you are not as good at listening as you are at talking! I have had friends that ply the 'I am just being honest' line and insult folk, with 'issues' they have with someone else that are either over reactions or just plain bizarre. Just because you communicate often doesn't mean you are a good communicator.

I am more reserved than dh - and more empathetic - he is very good at dealing with issues head on. I wait until I am comfortable with my own feelings before I share them. I am never going to be a person that hugs and learns (I do observe and learn though) - I am laid back and dh is fiery we are opposites in many ways and I think a balance is good. Talking is great but silence can be golden.

Avoiding someone generally is an indication that a person does not want to deal with the other person/ issue. Maybe a flaming row clears the air but it can also create more resentment and end the relationship. Either way if a friend goes non contact (it has happened to me) I have curiosity and sadness about it but ultimately I recognise that it is the other persons choice and I certainly don't see anything to be gained by forcing an issue. In a marriage and with your children ideally you should be seeking a resolution. With a friendship I would just put such an experience behind me and move on. Life is too short.

Are you sure you're not being told issues that you're just not hearing?

I've had a falling out with someone recently. They're a talker too. I'm not. I have repeatedly politely told them of various issues, reworded, explained in different ways, they've always got an excuse not to hear whats being said.

They've now exploded at me, publicly on one occassion, over my refusal to talk. As soon as I try they just dismiss my opinion. Its too tiring, i've tried. For me its time to just walk away.

And you asked how can you explore what you did wrong when you don't know...

You are supposedly analytical, aware, open and emotionally intelligent, (that's the point of your OP after all) but you have no clue what could have gone wrong?

If you really don't know then maybe the reality of your behaviour in friendships is different from your perception?

Sorry but I think you may be too exhausting a friend.

Read Awadebumbos post above, that is spot on for me and may be the issue here for you.

Caillen: i find it weird that you would interpret a drop in the a level of contact as evidence of you doing wrong, and them punishing you. You sound way to old to think like that. People have other friends, and jobs, and children, and PMT, and their own troublesome parents and runaway dogs. Other than your spouse, a drop in contact probably has nothing to do with you. Even an extended drop in may only be related to you in that you sound like an awfully stressful friend to have to someone with the opposing personality and coping style.

Have you ever had, or considered therapy? You sound like you need to talk your way into a more complete understanding of relationships.

And YY to MisForMumNotMaid too

Im a bit like this, trying harder to open up. and not sulk

By not contact me I mean actually ignoring texts. To be clear, I do not do blazing rows, in fact I don't row or shout at all, and if a friend says 'back off,' I back off.
I do have other friends who have brought things ul with me and we've become very close as a result. If someone does bring something up my experience is that it results in a great conversation, a bit more understanding from both of us and a deeper sense of connection. I don't recall ever fighting with anyone except my older sister - it's always either a good chat or silence. The silence is so frustrating.
I have a great bunch if fantastic close supportive friends. I'd like to repair the ones that went wrong. But if the other person won't engage I can't do that. It's their choice, so I can't do much about it but it makes me sad.
I greatly respect someone who can say 'I'm not happy...' and have that conversation.

I'm sorry you're sad and I'm sorry your family has been pretty crap to you Cailin. I'm sure you are a good, loyal friend and you care about people - but I have a hunch you don't always properly hear what people are saying and therefore, for e.g, think you haven't been given explanations or warnings about a friendship - read Misformumnotmaid's post.

But Callindana your friend has clearly given you the back off signal and you've chosen to ignore it and dwell on not being able to get your point across.