Our neighbour...

[MrsSchadenfreude]

He is in his 80s, has been in and out of hospital for the past year (he has mental health problems and is often kept in for several weeks), recently went through a very messy divorce to someone less than half his age. He has become increasingly more and more paranoid that "someone" is out to get him, a professional person, who is being paid by his ex wife. He thinks that people are getting into his flat all the time, moving stuff around and stealing his money. (The stuff, and money, inevitably turns up in perfectly logical places, like his wallet, a folder he keeps personal documents in etc.)

He is frightened to be on his own in the flat, and as a result, bangs on our door three or more times a day, to ask our advice about whether he should call the police about this person "breaking into his flat". He asks to come and sit in with us, wants to stay the night. We are quite happy to give him a cup of tea or have him for dinner from time to time, and do so, but it has now reached the stage where he is driving me absolutely round the twist.

I used to work from home one day a week, but have had to give this up, as he just comes and bangs on the door, if he doesn't see me leave the flat. If he catches me or DH on our way out to work, he detains us, talking about the "break ins". I don't want to be rude, but I couldn't get away from him one day last week (he started crying) and was an hour and a half late for work.

I know he is scared and lonely. I know he is old. I know I should be more tolerant, but he is making my life a misery. I can't step outside the flat without him being right outside my front door. He has carers in twice a day, but he is very rude to them, and they hauled me up the other day when I was working from home, claiming that he had accused him of stealing his money, when it was in his pocket all the time.

We have his daughter's contact details, and have told her what she is like. She just thanks us for being nice to him, and says she doesn't live locally, and has a busy life so can't come up very often.

I've started going into work really early, so that he can't detain me (he usually gets DH instead) and trying to coincide coming home with when his carers will be there, so he doesn't bother me then. It's got to the stage where I feel like a prisoner, and my hours are being dictated by this man. Any ideas what I can do?

I am really surprised that so many people are defending the daughter's right to ignore her dad's problems while expecting a neighbour to 'just deal' with it. If I was you MrsSchad, I would be phoning the daughter a lot more than twice. Surely, the daughter has some responsibility for her own father. (Note: The dad doesn't want to sell his flat because he wants to leave it to the daughter - could that be a factor in daughter leaving him in the flat to get on with things, instead of taking action to get him into proper care?)
MrsSchad, I feel very sorry for you. You are being forced to be stand offish and horrible to the man, against your better nature, because he has trapped you in this situation. I hope Dementia UK can help you get things sorted. In the meantime, you are going to have to do as you say above, and just be matter of fact and firm with him.

I also think you should speak to the daughter, but not in an aggressive way. Explain that his behaviour is very unusual now, and that you think it's time to get social services involved because he is becoming very distressed and clearly needs more support than he is currently getting.

I don't think you should feel bad about being pleasant but firm and brief in your conversations with him - simply saying 'I'm sorry Mr X, I can't stop right now to talk because I have work'. Making time to have the odd cuppa with him is very kind of you and your DH. You sound like lovely neighbours.

Wellthatsit - I don't think anyone is expecting the OP/neighbours to 'just deal with it' at all. As I said upthread, I feel NO responsibility towards my father, and have no compunction in being NC with him. I would not however expect the neighbours to deal with him - i would expect them to pass any concerns to the relevant authorities.

It's not OPs 'duty' to look after him. or his dd's, (it's not going to be mine either, to look after my father) and if OP doesn't like him banging on her door, she must contact the SS or mental health team.

OP - it's hard, I had the same in my last house (if I saw the nieghbour in the street/back garden, I could wave goodbye to at least 20minutes)

Well, we are no further forward, and I think he is getting worse. He now either waits on the stairs or outside our flat so that he can collar us when we leave. He now maintains that someone has put "cameras" all round his flat to spy on him - DH went up, and what he claimed were cameras were glasses or vases, and they had been there forever, judging by the dust. He also maintains that people get in at night and watch him, and that he overheard them say that they were going to murder him by throwing him off a 10 storey building.

I phoned Age Concern, the Dementia helpline, and while they made sympathetic noises, they had no advice for moving things forward. I called social services - finally tracked down the adult safeguarding number, and they said they couldn't speak to me about him as I was neither him, a close relative or his carer. We have told him to call the police on 101 about his concerns, but don't know if he has done so. He now seems to have continence issues as well, to add to his problems. I don't know what to do. He was talking to DH at the door for about two hours earlier, during which time his carer rushed in and out. Every time we are in the flat, there is a tap tap tap at the door. I do feel sorry for him, but he is driving me nuts. I feel like my life is no longer my own, and I can't just sit down and read a book as I know he's going to start tapping at the door. I do ignore him, but he will stand there for hours (literally!) tapping away. Should I call the police? Will they speak to the safeguarding team?

Well I can't offer any practical advice apart from thinking you need to contact his daughter and ask to meet with her and explain the situation with her dad. Have you kept a diary of incidents? If not you should and you should share this with her.

It isn't fair on you at all that you are being made to feel uncomfortable and on edge in your own home because of this poor man's frail state of mind. He is harassing you - he may not be responsible for his actions, but that's what he is doing - maybe you should call the police.

I think I would phone the police because at the end of the day he is harassing you constantly.

Poor you. My father has dementia and it sounds as if this gentleman does to. As you have found ss won't talk to anyone who isn't related or named as a main carer. They won't even talk to mum here as she and dad are divorced. I do think the daughter has to step up - although I know how hard that is too, especially from a distance. If she is being unhelpful, every time he collars you say " I'll just phone daughter for you and ring her saying your dad wants to speak to you and hand him the phone. After a couple of calls a day she might get the message. It sounds unkind and drastic but also call them police every time he is at your door, say that his is stalking and harassing you. I'm afraid in these circumstances its the squeaky wheel that gets oiled first so keep the pressure up. Horrible and stressful for you OP

This is going to sound really harsh, and I am prepared for flaming.

How about you call the police on 101 and report him for antisocial behaviour?

They will quickly find that this is a social services matter and I'm sure SS will speak to the police if they won't speak to you as you're not him, a close relative or his carer.

Just a suggestion. Someone on here may know what action the police would take.

However, it could be distressing for him... even though he may get the help he needs in the long run.

ah, cross posted with a couple of others. Yes, call the police.

I do feel a bit sorry for the daughter, as there are very good reasons that she was NC for so long (and I was like that when she told me the reason). DH said he will wander down to the local police station later, or tomorrow morning on his way into work, and have a word. At least that way there is a record.

Do you know the company that provides his daily care? If so I would call the management team it doesn't sound like they are doing enough if they are willing to nip in and out whilst he preoccupies your DH. They should also be passing on the fact that he seems to be deteriorating.
The manager might have better luck with putting presure on social services if they are made aware of how badly he is deteriorating.

I would also consider reporting him to the police for harrassment. He can't (and shouldn't) be held accountable for his behaviour but they may also be able to out in a social services report too.

Put in

Sorry OP, I hadn't remembered about the daughter.

good call on calling the police.

Do you know who is providing his care? If so I'd start calling them, or social services, each time there is an issue.

Other than that the police (Although I can understand you being loathe to call the police when it's not really a police matter).

It's not on that the right people are able to wash their hands of it and leave a neighbour to deal with it.

I understand that his carers come from the local authority - I don't know for sure though. I agree that it doesn't really seem to be a police matter, but when no-one else seems interested, I think it is the last resort. I think it's quite worrying that the adult safeguarding team won't even listen to a neighbour's concerns - for this reason, and the daughter's reluctance to get involved, I think we need to speak to the police though. I've reached the conclusion that there is no alternative.

MrsSchafenfreude, I don't really have advice for you, but your neighbour sounds so much like my mum when her dementia deteriorated. She was paranoid, thought there were people in the house spying on her, her twice daily carers were stealing from her. She had an imaginary manfriend with a dog who was horrible to her and sent her out of the house. Luckily my sister lived nearby, but worked full time and the neighbours were helpful and rang her when my mum was found, confused, a couple of times in the street. She deteriorated over a period of 2 years, from first getting carers until they were no longer enough.

My mum ended up in a nursing home after living with my brother for 6 months. It was our decision but as we had no power of attorney over her care needs (only over financial matters, our mistake) social services were involved. There were as much use as a chocolate teapot. They were quite happy for her to have twice daily carers when her needs were obviously too much for that. I do feel for you. You must call the police if this continues as he will eventually be a danger to himself. My mum couldn't be reasoned with. Even if we convinced her this imaginary friend wasn't real, she forgot, and he was back in 5 minutes. She would get quite cross with us if we didn't believe her.

Also, OP, my mum had been a lovely, gentle person. The dementia made her irritable, angry, occasionally violent and very unhappy. Your neighbour's personality may change, may already have changed. Whatever his DD's relationship, was with him, she's the only one SS will deal with.

My mum had a door alarm . She got that she wouldn't stay in and after she opened the door it triggered carers who would come to check on her.

This went on way too much and as a result mum was taken into care.

If police are involved they will call SS or you could call a duty SW yourself. This man is a very vulnerable adult and I'm afraid he has got dementia and will need to go into a care home.

EllenJane - thank you, that is exactly how he is (without the dog and manfriend, however, there is a local man who has apparently stolen his identity). I do worry that he may become violent, particularly as there is some history there. It makes me nervous, particularly when the DDs are on their own in the flat, and I have told them never to open the door if they hear someone knocking, but to call me or their father, as we can be home in 10 minutes from work. It's his almost permanent presence on the stairs that is getting me down.

Hi OP - I posted on here a couple of months back and was wondering what had happened earlier when I posted on the the thread about a disabled BIL moving in with someone.

Firstly, it must be so hard going through this and feeling like no one is listening. In my dealings with SS since Xmas, when my own DF was diagnosed as terminally ill, I have been shocked at how little they can/will provide. The whole system seems to be about box ticking and covering arses, with little regard for the actual physical and emotional needs of anyone who may need assistance. Families are routinely harassed and bullied into stepping up when they can't, and given the daughter has good reasons for being NC, it's preposterous that SS still want to deal with her. As she's his next of kin and they won't deal with anyone else, everyone's at stalemate aren't they? And the longer this goes on, the cheaper it is for SS as they don't have to step in.

The SS model is outdated, outmoded and failing. I'd also advise calling the police in this situation as given the lack of interest all other agencies have shown, what choice do you have? The real crime here is that things have come to this though - what kind of country allows an old and confused man to deteriorate like this because no one has the common sense to break their own self-imposed protocols and step up?

As an aside, going back a few years, when a relative of mine retired from a very senior position within SS, he set up his own company, which went on to carry out independent investigations into when SS fuck up. He has made an absolute fortune!!! Trust me, the costs involved in SS stepping in in cases like this are small fry compared with the financial burden placed on SS when they're paying fees to people like said relative, let alone compensation and so on when they're found to have failed in their duty of care.

Wibby, was your relative from Yorkshire with the initials PC?

I think it is going to have to be the police. I am not sure that SS have had any contact with the daughter.

I would contact the police I think. If he were not unwell, you'd consider his behaviour towards you to be harassment.

Hi Mrs - no, but there were/are many others like him. The irony being that without his help, we wouldn't have been able to get my DF the care he needed as he knew better than anyone how to work the system. Don't get me wrong, we got exactly what anyone in my DF's position is entitled to. We just got it more quickly than is usual (though actually within the set target timescales, a rarity!) as we knew exactly who and what to mention when.

Relative himself despairs at the state of SS 'these days'.

Another option is the GP if you know which surgery he is registered with. Could ring tomorrow and ask to speak to the duty Dr.
Or he may be known to the local older persons mental health team, can you find their number.
We often have neighbours ringing about our patients. We can't give them info due to confidentiality and consent but we can listen and act on info we are given. Adult Services can also do this. It is rubbish that they can't speak to you because you aren't a relative or carer. You could try ringing them again and asking to speak to someone senior.