Our neighbour...

[MrsSchadenfreude]

He is in his 80s, has been in and out of hospital for the past year (he has mental health problems and is often kept in for several weeks), recently went through a very messy divorce to someone less than half his age. He has become increasingly more and more paranoid that "someone" is out to get him, a professional person, who is being paid by his ex wife. He thinks that people are getting into his flat all the time, moving stuff around and stealing his money. (The stuff, and money, inevitably turns up in perfectly logical places, like his wallet, a folder he keeps personal documents in etc.)

He is frightened to be on his own in the flat, and as a result, bangs on our door three or more times a day, to ask our advice about whether he should call the police about this person "breaking into his flat". He asks to come and sit in with us, wants to stay the night. We are quite happy to give him a cup of tea or have him for dinner from time to time, and do so, but it has now reached the stage where he is driving me absolutely round the twist.

I used to work from home one day a week, but have had to give this up, as he just comes and bangs on the door, if he doesn't see me leave the flat. If he catches me or DH on our way out to work, he detains us, talking about the "break ins". I don't want to be rude, but I couldn't get away from him one day last week (he started crying) and was an hour and a half late for work.

I know he is scared and lonely. I know he is old. I know I should be more tolerant, but he is making my life a misery. I can't step outside the flat without him being right outside my front door. He has carers in twice a day, but he is very rude to them, and they hauled me up the other day when I was working from home, claiming that he had accused him of stealing his money, when it was in his pocket all the time.

We have his daughter's contact details, and have told her what she is like. She just thanks us for being nice to him, and says she doesn't live locally, and has a busy life so can't come up very often.

I've started going into work really early, so that he can't detain me (he usually gets DH instead) and trying to coincide coming home with when his carers will be there, so he doesn't bother me then. It's got to the stage where I feel like a prisoner, and my hours are being dictated by this man. Any ideas what I can do?

It could be as simple as age related dementia. An elderly family friend insisted that people were coming in to her flat and moving things. They weren't of course and she is now in a home.

You say that you should be more tolerant, but allowing him to delay you enough to be 90 minutes late for work is too tolerant.

I would also suggest ringing social services for help.

Another one here appalled at the 'blame it on the daughter' mentality. Whilst this is a very sad situation, it's not his daughter's fault, or, technically, her responsibility. Having gone through something similar recently with DF, I'd encourage everyone to ensure that they have adequate plans in place for 'when the time comes'.

Its not even so much the blaming of the daughter, but the making her life a misery with endless calls that I'm shocked at! Its not op's job to be the morality police and hound this mans daughter if she falls short of the mumsnet code of martyrdom. If the op has gone out of her way to involve herself in this mans life, then naturally he is going to push for more and more as his illness takes hold. Kinder to freeze him out now, and let people who are paid to care for him step up.

NC means not in communication right? If his DD didn't speak to him for 20 years there are probably very good reasons for that. If he has two daughters would the other be more responsive?

But either way, whoever you speak to, if I were you I'd make it clear that you will no longer be looking out for him. The family may feel that you are taking more care of him than you are which absolves them of responsibility.

He has dementia and it sounds like he needs to be in a cared for environment. Social Services are the key to this but what generally happens is a serious incident will take place which will mean that he cannot return home.

His daughter needs to be told firmly that he is unsafe and SS need to work with her because the responsibility does not lie with you. If there are carers going in I am concerned that they are not alerting their manager to this. I held contracts when I ran a domicillary service and contacted ss immediately when our workers raised any issues of concern, along with speaking to the family.

I am sorry you are in this situation and you have been kind and understanding but he clearly needs far more help then he is receiving and it is his daughter's responsibility.

It's so easy to blame the daughter, but those that do have no idea what the circumstances are and the state of the relationship between them.

My husband has a close relative with severe mental illness (not dementia). They have done some awful things to him and others over the years. He will deal with financial stuff for them, but he would be the last person on earth to do any hands on caring because it wouldn't be well received by the relative concerned and quite frankly my husband is scared of what they might do - knives have been involved.

Actually, it isn't his daughter's responsibility, Elsie. Have you read the thread?

Why is it the daughter's responsibility? I've been NC with my own father for over 20 years - he could rot in a cellar before I'd lift a finger for him. He absolved himself of responsibilty for me when I was a child - why would he be my responsibilty now?

He is also not the neighbours responsibilty.

Not his daughter's responsibility? Of course it is. If he were to fall and lie dead in his house, the next of kin is contacted. She is his next of kin, his blood relative. Now... she might not be happy about dealing with him but she has no choice. If she doesn't want to do it, it is her responsibility to find someone within her family to do it. I wouldn't mither her but I would ask her to sort it out. It's not his neighbour's responsibility is it? (who incidentally sounds lovely and caring but shouldn't be landed with this situation)

Of course she has a choice! She can say no, and that will be the end if it. Are you honestly saying that she will be made to either care for him or activily sort care? Rubbish.

I would let the DD know how he's been behaving, though he may have dementia there is probably a reason she went NC with him and she may recognise some of his normal behaviour in it to. It also gives her the chance to contact people as well.

I'd still contact Age concern and social services though, be firm with him and go about your business.

It's not the DDs responsibility to care and look after him, she was NC until she was contacted as his next of kin so she's probably feeling more she has to be in some kind of contact than wants to be. For all we know he was toxic or abusive. Tell her what he's like though, all his behaviour and how it makes you feel keeps her in the picture. Make it clear that you will be brushing him off and will e contacting people yourself if he keeps harassing. Up to her if she chooses to do anything on her end regarding social services and trouble is as well even if she does if her father gets arsey and refuses help then there's not much else anyone can do.

Also in some cases the families are powerless. Our relative was only sectioned when they became a danger to others outside of the family situation. Trying to get help for a mentally ill person can take years and years of tearing your hair out and getting nowhere.

If one of my parents was as vile as some you hear about I'm not sure I would be inclined to do much either. There are a tiny minority of people who deserve a lonely old age.

You've had better advice than I can give,
Just wanted to say you're my kind of neighbour it's good to see such a thoughtful, compassionate post

nunk

It absolutely is to do with his daughter who has washed her hands of it by the sounds of it

Why exactly is it up to the OP = lovely neighbour! and her DP - to have to deal with it?.......... They have their own life!

I had to take care of aging parents - dementia and cancer - as a LP. living abroad

Luckily I had siblings to help share the load.

It is a horrible horrible situation to be in. The family should pull together, if not - for whatever reason, single working with kids, living abroad as we were you still have to get in there and do the best you can and not leave it to the neighbours! extremely selfish really.

Whatever went down in their family it is NOT NDN's problem to have to deal with!

OP, you sound lovely and very stressed by this. Best thing is to do your best to get in touch with his daughter, then let her get on with - GP, SS, etc. & don't take no for an answer!

God bless you! and find your inner warrior!

Except the OP was taking upon herself now, which was lovely except now it's backfiring on her and she needs to hand it over and leave it. No one has said the OP should keep it up or put up with him, she should tell the daughters then contact ss and Age concern and just brush him off.

It is not her issue and problem, no, she can tell the daughters and if their father was at all decent then they'll probably help. If he wasn't well then maybe the daughters have washed their hands for a good reason.

ifly, you chose to help your ageing parents. If his daughter chooses to wash her hands of the situation then in reality that's her choice and no one can make her do anything. Op has not been made to 'step up', she took it upon herself to invite an obviously lonely, needy and vulnerable old man into her life. Now she is reaping what she has sown. I bet his daughter isn't exactly happy with a kind, but ultimately interfering neighbour hassling her because she now regrets letting this man start to rely on her. I know I'd be angry if Mrs Busybody from next door to dad took it upon herself to act as family mediator and morality judge.

Does he have a community psychiatric nurse or other person from the community mental health team involved? You might think so if he is in and out of hospital. Is it psych hospital or general hospital?

They are definitely the best people to help him.

A person has the right to make decisions about their life even when mentally ill or suffering from dementia up to the point where they are endangering themselves or others (just being a nuisance is not covered). Health and social services don't have the power to compel people to go into care or accept care at home. It is not usually a lack of desire to help but legally it isn't possible.

Older people's CMHT get this all the time and are good at gently persuading someone to accept help. For instance perhaps he would accept going to a day centre regularly or a more frequent care package if he doesn't want to go into care.

OP you sound lovely but you will have to put your boundaries up a bit if it is too much. You have the right to say no, walk away, not invite him in or open the door even if he is distressed. As mean as that sounds you may need to do that so that he realises he can't keep relying on you and gets help.

"I bet his daughter isn't exactly happy with a kind, but ultimately interfering neighbour hassling her because she now regrets letting this man start to rely on her. I know I'd be angry if Mrs Busybody from next door to dad took it upon herself to act as family mediator and morality judge."

Where does this come from, Nunk? DH has phoned the daughter twice. Two times. That is all. She's clearly not interested, so he hasn't bothered her again. I'm not being Mrs Busybody, I would just like to live in peace without the constant tapping on the door, or him being there when I open the door to go to work, or when I come home from work. He needs help. If his daughter won't help, then someone else needs to. His other daughter is 12, she is from his much younger ex wife, so would absolutely not be involved in all of this.

And I didn't "invite him into my life." He's been in for a cup of tea a few times, and dinner on occasion. It's called being neighbourly. We've done the same for our other neighbours. He has just deteriorated quite a lot in the past few months, we didn't have this problem 18 months ago.

Mamadoc- he's been in and out of both. I will call DementiaUK tomorrow, and ask their advice.

Mrsschad I wouldn't pay too much notice to what nunk has to say.

According to her caring for your elderly parents when they are in need is martyrdom!

Showing compassion and kindness is also a crime in her book too!

My DH's nan was "fine to live on her own" up until the massive police manhunt for her son, who she said had tried to kill her and then went into hiding.

He was out of town on business.

This paranoia is a classic sign of progressing Alzheimer's and he is no longer safe to be on his own.

Prior to my DD's birth I was a care manager in a secure dementia residential unit. I understand that he does not want to sell his flat, but in all honesty, as this progresses, not only is in annoying and inconvenient but can become dangerous. Please speak to Age Concern and his child(ren).

If hes been in a psychiatric ward im guessing paranoid schizophrenia given what you have said.
I would contact the local mental health team and tell them how much worse he has become, they should do an assessment, his meds may have been changed in hospital/he could be forgetting to take them or could be down to dementia, the situation must be intolerable for you and the poor man needs further help.

Op, I have been talking about you as if you were already doing the things other posters have sugested, Mrs busybody is who would call the dd every single time the old man opened his door. Sorry.
I'm not uncompassionate, but caring for mentally I'll, old parents is a huge deal, it will possibly take up your life for the next 20 years in some cases. More time than they spent raising you. To suggest people commit to this just because they share DNA (remember this mans dd was nc) is nuts. And yes, I think too many women martyr themselves to their parents because society (as displayed on here) expects women to be nice, kind, helpful to the total exclusion of having a life of their own.

And op, spending 90 minutes on idle chit chat making yourself late is letting him take over your life....you ARE letting him in.

But nunk I don't think anyone is suggesting that the dd has to look after her DF. However in the absence of anyone else, the dd has to take responsibility for contacting the correct authorities to put together a care plan.

My dts1 has ASD and will probably need support to live independently as an adult. This will be my responsibility to organise as long as I'm alive. If that makes me a martyr in your eyes, then fine. I categorically don't agree.

He's been banging on the door this morning. I have ignored, but I need to get into the office for a meeting. He is standing in the hall outside our flat, I can hear him shuffling about and breathing. I am just going to sail past quickly, saying sorry, in a hurry, can't stop now, which will be true.