Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

'Hold me back I'm bout' to sp**?' [[Title edited by MNHQ]]

154 replies

NoArmaniNoPunani · 18/02/2015 08:30

I know Kanye West is a monumental douchecanoe but this line from his latest song with Paul McCartney is a step too far even for him.

I have CP and I never act like massive bellend Kanye.

AIBU to think Paul McCartney might have refused to put his name to a song that uses that line?

OP posts:
HowCanIMissYouIfYouWontGoAway · 19/02/2015 14:52

Equally so? Nope.

But if I knew that any or all of them caused genuine hurt or upset? I'd find other words. It doesn't even matter what I find offensive. If I know that my words hurt - I will choose to use other ones. There are so, so many to choose from, I will not be rendered silent by choosing to not say a few.

Dawndonnaagain · 19/02/2015 14:52

Oh, and my aunt has worked in America for forty years, with people with physical disabilities. Spaz isn't really acceptable over there, either. Twenty years ago perhaps, but not now.

Tanaqui · 19/02/2015 14:55

A side note- I think meltdown came into popular usage from nuclear reactors, not computers, but is used widely in computing too- it's a pity there isn't a more specific "medical" word for an autistic meltdown as it is harder to separate that meaning from the more general one. Unlike spaz/ Mong/ retard which are very clearly offensive in th uk, even if some people need the connection pointed out.

mildlyacquiescent · 19/02/2015 14:58

Dawndonna, I can't follow your argument but I was up working all night and am dosed up with all sorts to suppress the 'flu, so it's probably me. Will bow out now.

mildlyacquiescent · 19/02/2015 15:00

Btw I never heard the terms "mong", "spazzer" or "Flid" befre I went to the UK, so perhaps you have more of a problem with these specific terms. I hate, hate, hate "mental" and "retard."

Going for a lie-down!

Dawndonnaagain · 19/02/2015 15:02

messaged you, mildly.

Showy · 19/02/2015 15:04

One of my all time favourite singers (who is English) has the word 'spastic' in one of his songs. He never, ever uses the word. If he sings the song live, he misses out that bit. He made a mistake and didn't realise the offence. THAT is the only graceful way to deal with this sort of thing, to learn from it and change your ways.

Or you can harp on about language evolution and free speech and your rights and continue to be knowingly offensive. I like it when you openly make that choice. It helps me know who you are.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/02/2015 15:06

Do people who claim words are only offensive if used to directly abuse people really not see that not only is it not OK to call my DD a "retard' but it is also not OK to describe someone as "retarded" as an insult (ie having LDs is really bad) or for doing some thing really inadvisable
(I.e.people with LDS do stupid things)?

And it's not excuse if people don't mean it.

They should bloody educate themselves.

HowCanIMissYouIfYouWontGoAway · 19/02/2015 15:08

I know. I'm going to call you this word that means disabled or something connected to disability because the worst thing I can think to say to you is that you are like someone who has a disability.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/02/2015 15:08

I mean it's OK to say:

"Argh, I'm a spazzer... I'll have to go home and change"

if you don't mean it offensively because it's entrenched usage?

It is very not OK.

madhairday · 19/02/2015 15:13

So sad that disablist language is still so tolerated and widely used - then debated on here as an example of free speech, the professionally offended etc.

My dd has dyspraxia and has been called that word too many times. She has psoriasis too so it's 'diseased spaz'. Delightful. And some of you come here and make out that people have the right to use such language Hmm Sad

OP, YANBU.

merrymouse · 19/02/2015 15:18

Mildly the difference between some of the examples that you have used and the word 'spaz' is that 'spaz' is used as a general insult and has a wider meaning that has nothing to do with conditions such as cerebral palsy, while clearly linking people with disabilities to the idea of being less able and of less value.

If I describe my boss as 'deaf', I might mean that he is not a good listener (and it is possible to argue that this use is insensitive) or it might mean that he is deaf. It wouldn't mean that he was stupid. 'Spaz' always has a derogatory meaning.

If golliwogs are normal toys in New Zealand, that can only be because New Zealanders are ignorant. (I have no idea whether golligwogs are acceptable in New Zealand, so don't know if this is true or not.)

If, because of language differences, it is acceptable to use the word 'spaz' in America, fine. However, the song should not be released with these lyrics in the UK, and Paul McCartney should not be associated with it.

AliceinWinterWonderland · 19/02/2015 15:19

um... it wasn't acceptable just over 10 years ago in America when I lived there. In the 80s, it was more widely used in America, but even then it was derogatory. Now? No.

QueenTilly · 19/02/2015 15:28

ButI'd note that Paki is quite often used neutrally Down Under, golliwogs are normal toys in New Zealand (sold at exclusive boutques). I think the argument that "spaz" is acceptable in America has more validity than you'd think. Just because something is unacceptable in the UK doesn't mean the rest of the world will follow suit, alas.

You're thinking of offensiveness as developed through circular logic. Things aren't offensive because wee say they're offensive because we say they're offensive because they say they're offensive.

Do Asian people in Australia (whether they trace their ancestry from Pakistan or India) feel "Paki" is neutral? Do they feel it's a neutral and not at all offensive act to lump them all together as "Pakis"? Do black people in New Zealand look at golliwogs (just dissect the word- it's a portmanteau of jolly wog Shock) without seeing them as a malicious dehumanising caricature of black people's features?

The dominant culture/group making the joke isn't the group who determines whether it's offensive. In Britain, we tend to agree these things are offensive. But we didn't make them offensive. They always were. We just finally listened to and acknowledged the feelings of the people the language targeted.

groovyolmutha · 19/02/2015 15:28

OK. This may seem a bit harsh but what do you expect from Kanye and Rihanna who both make a living out of being inappropriately sexual and in poor taste. And Paul McCartney who was once a superstar, is now super rich but let's face it, well past his best before date and trying to 'get down with the kids'.

The music is rubbish with lyrics to match. Also, having read the lyrics, I don't think you can assume the word "spaz" has anything to do with "spastic" - the context seems wrong.

And, so what if it did? People quite happily use worse terms and expressions han that in lyrics ('Blurred Lines" being a case in point). I wouldn't use it myself as I know people find it offensive but in the real world where PC is a pipe dream ...............

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/02/2015 15:30

"So what if it did" as people use worse terms?

Two wrongs don't make a right. They make two wrongs.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 19/02/2015 15:30

And it would only be worth worrying about if the music was good? Hmm

HowCanIMissYouIfYouWontGoAway · 19/02/2015 15:32

Well, I don't know about you, but I kind of expect people to be decent human beings who choose their words with care and I am always disappointed if that is not the case.

I don't know if PC is a pipe dream but clearly caring about the impact your words have on others and choosing alternatives just to be a decent human being who does not want to cause hurt, upset or offence is.

Dawndonnaagain · 19/02/2015 15:37

And, so what if it did?
Have you read the thread? Are you too obtuse to learn from it?

QueenTilly · 19/02/2015 15:51

groovy I don't regret to say I am not familiar* with the work Blurred Lines. Could you specify what terminology the artists used in there that was worse, along with whether the song was criticised for it?

*I can sing along to Beatles music, though.

Original poster
NoArmaniNoPunani · 19/02/2015 17:00

The offensive words to blurred lines were bleeped out on the radio though. This word isn't.

For the person who says IABU for listening to the song, I don't choose to, it comes on the radio when I'm at work.

OP posts:
funnyossity · 19/02/2015 17:11

My child gets played pop songs for Golden Time in school! There seems to be no escaping the dross.

kickassangel · 19/02/2015 17:14

I live and teach in the US. Recently I had a chat with a colleague where we bemoaned the Weird Al song because of its use of language, and how, even though it's brilliant for teaching some grammar skills (which I teach), I would never play that song out loud, or even mention it to students (age 13 - 14) as it's unacceptable.

So, no, I don't think the word is OK in the US. At least not where I live and work.

limegoldfinewine · 19/02/2015 17:23

I can't speak for the others but by saying "can't police the world", I meant that literally. I wasn't saying that it wasn't offensive in the UK,I was saying that some words are not offensive in other countries and that with the Internet, people seem to forget they are other countries with other norms and words.

It sort of reminds me of the Charlie hebdo thing where all the english speaking journos fell all over themselves to call the magazine racist (with zero context) instead of condemning the attacks and then had to eat their words when French people who could understand the magazine wrote long articles explaining how it was satire and not actually racist.

merrymouse · 19/02/2015 17:27

The difference being that this song is not in another language and largely unknown in the uk. It is being played several times a day on radio 1 and one of the artists is possibly the most famous british pop musician.