Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Original poster

to be getting more and more annoyed by the attitude that kids can be planned

221 replies

stitch10yearson · 16/02/2015 10:47

Because if you dtd, then there is always a risk of pregnancy. condoms are only 98% effective, the pill and the coil 97%. This means basically that if you do the deed, then the only way of ensuring that you don't have a baby is terminating it.

And breathe.

IMO, NOT having kids is a lifestyle choice, not the other way around. If a man doesn't want kids, then he needs to always always wear a condom, even if she ison the pill and has a coil in, or have the snip. and probably still wear a condom. Or only have sex with someone who is post menopausal.

OP posts:

BMW6 · 16/02/2015 18:40

It's obvious that having children is a chosen path. If you indulge in DTD you are likely to fall pregnant unless you take precautions. If you are unlucky you can have a termination.

NOT having children may be by choice or a biological hinderance.

I had sex for over twenty years and never fell pregnant (pill). Was then sterilised aged 38 because I never wanted children and carried on DTD without falling pregnant......

Sounds like OP has a bee in her bonnet about this, but it is an odd POV.

blackheartsgirl · 16/02/2015 18:53

well. I suppose theoretically if everyone decided to make NOT having children a lifestyle choice then eventually the human population would die out.

dementedpixie · 16/02/2015 19:08

the family planning association says categorically on its page that:

The main way an IUD works is to stop sperm reaching an egg. It does this by preventing sperm from surviving in the cervix, uterus or fallopian tube.

It may also work by stopping a fertilised egg from implanting in the uterus.

An IUD does not cause an abortion.

caroldecker · 16/02/2015 19:20

Used properly condoms and the pill have an effective rate of over 99.5% - that means that for 100 couples having regular sex for a year using this contraception, less than 1 will get pregnant.
On average, if you have sex for all your c.40 years of fertility using these contraceptives properly, only 1 in 5 women will become pregnant.
Therefore 80% of people can choose whether to have children.
You can use both as well to make things more secure.

OddBoots · 16/02/2015 19:24

blackheartsgirl and if everyone decides to have a dozen children we'd be over populated - neither is likely. For most the ideal is being able to choose.

paxtecum · 16/02/2015 19:27

If you are super fertile then use several as many types of contraception as possible.
The pill, the coil and condoms all at the same time.
That must lessen the risk of pregnancy.

Handsoff7 · 16/02/2015 20:06

Even if you use only 2 - implant and condoms you'd get a real life failure rate of 1 per 20,000 per year.

If everyone did that only 600 babies would be born each year as opposed to the 400,000 currently born.

YABU.

Handsoff7 · 16/02/2015 20:09

It's 400,000 of each sex so 800,000 total. Sorry for wrong data but the point stands.

Transporter · 16/02/2015 20:28

I'm a bit about the term 'super fertile' - I know loads of people, myself included, who were lucky enough to get pregnant during their very first non-contraception cycle. It why you can't take any chances.

DanyStormborn · 16/02/2015 20:35

I avoided kids using just one method of contraception at a time (condoms or the pill, rarely both) for over a decade. Decided I wanted a baby then was pregnant two weeks later. Having this baby is a choice I made. Even if I had got pregnant when using contraception it would have been a choice I made as I chose to have sex so chose to take the small risk I would conceive on contraception and would have chose whether or not to continue the pregnancy.

LarrytheCucumber · 16/02/2015 21:04

I've managed regular sex for about 20 years now using the pill for some time and then just condoms and managed to only get pregnant the one time my husband and I wanted to. It's not rocket science.
I'm pleased that worked for you, but we have three children, one a pill mishap, one a coil mishap and one a condom failure. It may not be rocket science, but it isn't foolproof either. The third was born 18 years after the second, suggesting that even though we had managed for quite some time without any problems, there is no room for complacency.
We hadn't planned on having children at all.

hijk · 16/02/2015 21:28

It may also work by stopping a fertilised egg from implanting in the uterus

An IUD does not cause an abortion

in other words, it aborts it. ( sometimes after implantation)

hijk · 16/02/2015 21:31

Don't be ridiculous. Even with your figures, planning will work just fine for 49 out of every 50 couples. A 2% chance of plans not working isn't "don't add up", it's a really very small risk. Also, you do realise that those figures are based on using a method for a year, right? It's not each time you have sex?

so that is one in 5 couples, every ten years, or half of all couples every 25 years.

caroldecker · 16/02/2015 21:34

hijk yes based on 98% - actual rate is over 99.5%

GraysAnalogy · 16/02/2015 21:40

Hijk Isn't that just semantics?

hijk · 16/02/2015 21:45

what, saying it aborts? well it depends how you feel. Contraception means preventing conception, the coil doesn't do that, the embryo is formed then is killed. Some people don't mind that, some people do.

grocklebox · 16/02/2015 21:48

Hjk, thats nonsense. You are peddling misinformation. Stopping a fertilised egg from implanting is not an abortion.
Words have meanings and you clearly don't understand that one.

I really hope you are lying about being a science teacher teaching sex ed. Thats a horrifying and depressing thought. Does help to explain the UK's high rate of teen pregnancy though, if thats the quality of information the children are getting in school

jigsawlady · 16/02/2015 21:48

it is a choice ro have a kid. even if you accidentally get pregnant you can choose not to carry on with the pregnancy.

that is a pretty sad way to go about making sure you dont have a kid though, theres always risks that contraception could fail why not double or triple up. pill, coil, condom, mail pill used together will reduce the risk to miniscule.

in short get real op, you are being ridiculous and clearly dont know the definition of words like choice or likely and cang seem to grasp basic statistics & probability

GraysAnalogy · 16/02/2015 21:49

Well yes, a fertilised egg is a far cry from a foetus, so when we talk about 'abortion' it really isn't the same when it concerns a fertilised egg.

grocklebox · 16/02/2015 21:50

It doesn't depend on how you feel. Science is facts, not feelings. Plain to see your agenda now though with the purposefully emotive language.

GraysAnalogy · 16/02/2015 21:50

I really hope you are lying about being a science teacher teaching sex ed

Oh please tell me this isn't true. And if not, I hope Hjk is obective in his/her teaching.

christinarossetti · 16/02/2015 21:54

A fertilised egg being prevented from implanting is not an abortion. The fertilised egg would not continue to develop without implanting, or that particular egg may not have successfully implanted. Who knows?

If you are one of the people this matters to, then don't use this method of contraception.

If not, then it's really no-one else's business as to how you manage your reproductive life.

BatteryPoweredHen · 16/02/2015 22:04

With a copper iud, it is very unlikely that the egg will ever be fertilised

The cu2+ ions released by the copper in the coil act as a spermicide preventing fertilisation from ever occurring.

IF the coil is used as emergency contraception, it might prevent a fertilised egg from implanting, but this isn't the typical action of the device.

Jackieharris · 16/02/2015 22:21

I'm left wondering if anyone on this thread understands the quoted failure rates for contraceptives?

Say the 99% rate often quoted for the combined pill (the mini pill is less effective). Officially that means that of 100 couples using this 1% will become pregnant over a year. Not over a reproductive lifetime but each year!

Therefore over a reproductive lifespan of say 30 years the chances of becoming pregnant even with perfect use of the most reliable contraceptives is much much higher than 1%. Why does no one seem to 'get' this?

Just because you've used xyz contraception for 20 years without a pregnancy occurring doesn't necessarily mean it always worked. The chances of a conception occurring during one cycle in a sexually active couple is something like 20% depending on various factors. So often not being pregnant is just chance and not actually the functioning of the contraception.

hijk · 16/02/2015 22:33

I completely objectively teach what I am told to teach, with the NHS material, specifically that the coil is a method of birth control, but NOT a contraceptive, it is in fact an abortifacient.

nothing emotive, nothing with any agenda, this is what I teach, it isn't my choice, anyway.

It doesn't depend on how you feel. Science is facts, not feelings. Plain to see your agenda now though with the purposefully emotive language.

no, it does depend how you feel, some people find this unacceptable, some people are fine with it. Whether this is morally right or not, is not a fact, it is an opinion. I have no purposefully emotive language, Grocklebox, I am just telling it as it is, and as I am required to teach it.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9