to be getting more and more annoyed by the attitude that kids can be planned

[stitch10yearson]

Because if you dtd, then there is always a risk of pregnancy. condoms are only 98% effective, the pill and the coil 97%. This means basically that if you do the deed, then the only way of ensuring that you don't have a baby is terminating it.

And breathe.

IMO, NOT having kids is a lifestyle choice, not the other way around. If a man doesn't want kids, then he needs to always always wear a condom, even if she ison the pill and has a coil in, or have the snip. and probably still wear a condom. Or only have sex with someone who is post menopausal.

I do sort of see what you mean. A while ago someone linked to the ten year failure stats for various contraception. It was pretty scary!

Wtf? Of course it's a choice. Yabu, and frankly weird.

YABU.

Of course kids can be planned. Like others here have said, I've only been pregnant when I wanted to be.

YABU
The statistics you quote take into account 'user error'. So that is forgetting to take your pill and not using back up contraception, or putting a condom on badly so it splits.
Taken properly, the pill is 99.7% effective and condoms are 99%
The coil is 99.9% effective, even with user error

So that basically means if you do the deed, the way to ensure you don't have a baby is using your contraception properly
www.optionsforsexualhealth.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control-options/effectiveness

If kids could not be planned and contraceptive failure was such that even trying to plan was a game of Russian roulette, then the stutus of Italy with both a low abortion rate and a negative birthrate could not exist.

YABU - I don't dispute accidents happen - although I suspect many are due to preventable mistakes - I planned all my pregnancies and managed to be sexually active for 16 years without having a baby

YANBU. I've been pregnant 7 times and the first 3 were contraceptive failures. Two of the methods were the so-called "foolproof" types where user error isn't a factor. People generally feel the contraception THEY use is very very safe and effective and people who have contraceptive failures are stupid/liars.

Unfortunately I fall pregnant easily but struggle to carry to term and lost two of my unplanned pregnancies. The third I had. Abortion wasn't on the cards for me as after my two losses I felt it might be the only baby I ever got. Timing was lousy but we all survived. Of my four planned pregnancies I lost two. I'm currently using a contraceptive implant but I can't say I would be massively surprised if it failed on me.

I have spoken to many people who have never experienced contraceptive failure, so it's not a given. And I know loads of women who have never had a miscarriage so that's not a given either. But for me it feels quite likely my contraception won't work and quite likely my pregnancy won't work out either.

Sorry to be a pain but I'm really struggling to understand your argument, OP. Can you rephrase?

Are you saying that contraception isn't reliable enough, therefore it's impossible to actively "plan" children? Because we have no method, short of abstinence (or, post-pregnancy, termination), that is reliable enough to allow us to plan effectively?

Just because people have low fertility, don't do the deed often enough, or are happy to use termination as a contraception makes me see red

Is this a rant about how those who claim to be able to plan effectively (I would include myself in that category) are actually more reliant on naturally lower fertility or infrequent opportunity than they recognise?

One in six couples have fertility problems. Contraception used properly gives a very small chance of pregnancy especially if you double up. There is more of a choice about not being pregnant than there is about being pregnant.

YABU. I used to double up in BC before TTC.

Where I take issue is with your apparent view that termination would be a Bad Thing. I agree that no contraception is completely foolproof for everyone. And this is one of the many reasons why I support safe, free, early access to termination.

My first pregnancy was the result of ahem 'constructive carelessness', btw. I'd managed to avoid pregnancy pretty effectively up to the age of 37, though.

Of course it's a choice. of course they can be planned (within limits of fertility). Otherwise I would not have been sexually active (on and off) for 17 years before having my first child.

I think you seem to be overly anxious about the risk of pregnancy, OP. Yes, you do have to be careful if you want to be sexually active and avoid pregnancy, but your level of alarm at the risks suggests that you might possibly need to go and talk to your GP.

How did your partner feel about being celibate for a year because you were so worried about getting pregnant again? Unless it was a 100% mutual decision, it can't have been healthy for your relationship.

As well as user error though you have unexpected tummy bugs, drug interactions etc. It is nowhere near as black and white as many of you suggest.

on the biological urge issue - many people have such urgers and have sex with themselves, define sex OP.

Are you trying to justify withholding sex from a partner based on this fear of an unplanned pregnancy by any chance?

Of course they can be planned. Your logic is faulty. Just because children can be unplanned, it does not at all follow that they can not be planned.

The pill is more effective than you state. Condoms plus pill if both used well is virtually 100% safe. I'm not why you're so angry about it. MAP if you carried away is 96% effective. Abortion is accessible and legal in this country. Planning kids is not a fallacy.

But tummy bugs and medicine interactions are things you should inform yourself about if you are taking the pill - they aren't secret

I now contraceptive failure happens

Not using condoms when you have been ill is not the same thing

The pill is 100% effective when used properly.

Not getting pregnant is very easy.

I'm not talking about who discover they have fertility issues. Clearly that can't be planned for.

Pill users are informed very clearly that they should take extra precautions following on from any sickness etc. I understood that easily at the age of 15, when I first went on the pill.

So no, that doesn't wash.

My experience is like kitchentableagain; I get pregnant easily, but don't always carry the baby successfully.

On the Pill, but had a tummy upset, so used condoms, pregnant but miscarried.
DS1 was planned, and was born 9 months to the day after we started TTC.
DS2 was conceived whilst using condoms, but we were going to start TTC 6 weeks later (really, really didn't want to conceive when I did because we were going on a romantic anniversary break and I didn't want morning sickness during our week away)
Pregnant again whilst breastfeeding DS2 and using condoms, but miscarried.
DD1 was planned, and born 9 months and 3 weeks after we started TTC
Pregnant again while using condoms and aged 44, but miscarried.

So 4 out of 6 of my pregnancies were whilst using condoms, though in each case, except the last, it was the timing that was wrong, rather than that we wanted to avoid a baby at all costs.

Thank you for that biology lesson, op. I think that you aren't actually saying anything we don't already know, though!

Not having kids is a choice for a small number of women who have access to contraception and abortion

Not having kids for an infertile couple isn't a choice - it's a given, you can't have a baby naturally.

Only those who are celibate or totally gay can 100% guarantee they will not have biological children.

Women who are raped and become pregnant and who do not agree with abortion have not got a choice - they will end up with a baby.

I'd say most women on the planet do not have a "choice" about having kids. Particularly those living in cultures where heterosexual marriage and having that man's children is obligatory.
Do not generalise a tiny population in one part of the world into another part.

Anyone who thinks having children is a choice doesn't look very far beyond their nose IME.

PS My friend was told having a baby would most likely kill her. She chose not to risk death - was that a choice? Really? Choosing not to die is a lifestyle choice?

The pill isn't 100% effective when used correctly. All contraception has failure rates, even with perfect use. Very low rates, but not zero. This link suggests that, with perfect use, about 3 women in 100 would get pregnant in a 10 year period.

If you are youngish, healthy, and regularly have sex, then absolutely no contraception is likely to work the way that people make out they should.

I managed to not get pregnant under those circumstances for 12 years before I had (planned) dd1. Then a further 5yrs, until I fell (planned) pregnant with dd2.

Since then it has been 5yrs that I have managed not to get pregnant.

I'd say that my contraception (the pill) worked as people make out it should.

And people thinking that women commonly & routinely use termination as contraception (which is not possible, because contraception PREVENTS pregnancy & a termination ENDS a pregnancy) make ME see red!!