to be getting more and more annoyed by the attitude that kids can be planned

[stitch10yearson]

Because if you dtd, then there is always a risk of pregnancy. condoms are only 98% effective, the pill and the coil 97%. This means basically that if you do the deed, then the only way of ensuring that you don't have a baby is terminating it.

And breathe.

IMO, NOT having kids is a lifestyle choice, not the other way around. If a man doesn't want kids, then he needs to always always wear a condom, even if she ison the pill and has a coil in, or have the snip. and probably still wear a condom. Or only have sex with someone who is post menopausal.

So is this thread having a go at people who plan pregnancies or people who have unplanned pregnancies?

I have an unplanned baby. As in, I didn't plan to have a baby. I could've been more strict with contraception, so could DP. But we didn't plan to have a baby, and that wasn't our aim when we had sex, and it wasn't a good time by any stretch of the imagination.

I know people get annoyed at the use of 'unplanned pregnancy' when people could've used contraception, but it's a damn sight better than 'unwanted pregnancy'.

YABU and tbh you've answered your own point in your OP where you said:
If a man doesn't want kids, then he needs to always always wear a condom, even if she ison the pill and has a coil in

There you go - that's how you can plan your pregnancies. And if the condom splits then you can get the MAP.

I think it's quite risky to have an attitude of 'pregnancy will happen no matter what I do'. It means you're not taking responsibility for ensuring you're using contraception properly and for reacting quickly to any changes eg if you are ill when on the pill ( it might not work so you have to consciously decide to use a different type of contraception) or a condom splitting (and you have to get the MAP).

Jumping from the statistics on reliability to saying everyone else must either abstain, have low sex drives and/or fertility issues seems rather immature.

Miggsie, I assumed the OP was meaning people in this country, as she used herself as an example, and went on to detail how unreliable she thinks contraception is.

So it's not about women in other cultures who do not have access to contraception.

Loads of women don't understand how their reproductive systems work or how different methods of contraception work.

I once spoke to a post grad educated professional woman in her mid 30s who didn't know that you have to take the pill at the same time (or within 12 hours) every day!

Lots don't understand the difference between the combined and mini pill or the difference between the copper coil and minera (iud & ius).

Lots of women can't take types of contraception because of epilepsy, weight, smoking, age, gynocological problems, history of blood clots etc.

It's not that long ago that you had to wait for a gp appointment to get the map so it often wasn't taken until close to the 72 hour limit when it's less effective.

People always seem to use their own individual experience "I always used xyz and it always worked for me" and falsely assume that everyone else has the same experience.

Imo we need much better contraception education at school and more knowledgable gps who thoroughly explain how the options work and how to take them correctly.

YABU.

I used contraception for 20 years, never got pregnant. When I finally met someone who I wanted to have children with, I stopped using contraception. I got pregnant two weeks later.

Totally planned child.

I think you are wrong as generally contraception is pretty effective. There are exceptions (I have had one contraceptive failure resulting in my current pregnancy - we always wanted a second child but with a bigger age gap) but not a huge amount. We are going for a vasectomy after this! My husband's suggestion, I'd never push something like that.

Leaving that aside though, what's your point? Even if you are right and contraception isn't that effective, what consequence do you think there should be? What about this bothers you?

I think you are unreasonable to object to the notion that children can be planned, stitch10, but not for the practical reasons other posters have cited - though those are entirely valid too.

I think you are being unreasonable, because your post assumes that if someone plans something, they will achieve it - and that is simply not the case. A plan is not a guarantee of success - it is a setting-out of how someone intends to reach their goal, but most plans do not take every eventuality into account, so there is always an element of uncertainty.

For example - I planned to go to choir rehearsal last monday, but I have lost about half of my vocal range and have been advised by the gp to rest my voice - so that plan came to nothing.

I planned to have children for 10 years before I finally got a lasting pregnancy that led to my wonderful ds.
I wish I could plan to be pregnant - I have been planning to be pregnant again for another 2 years and no pregnancy.
not having children is not a lifestyle choice for many - do you assume all the people you know without kids planned it that way and are not devastated inside crying their eyes out at night.

Contraception is not 100% perfect but neither is planning a child.

I feel quite upset by your post - can you just plan a 2nd baby for me please.

I agree with jackieharris: it would be great if there was more information about methods and their failure rates. For example a condom has a 99% (ish) success rate with perfect use, but 80% 'typical use'... So can we have descriptors of perfect and typical use? And for other methods like withdrawal, etc

And a bit more acknowledgement that 'getting carried away' is a reality for many people, and does not warrant a judgemental response. I think people respond to sexual stimulation a times with more or less urgency, and there is a lot of assumption on this thread that 'my experience is the norm' when perhaps they don't realise that sex can be different according to context. Because we don't really talk about this intimate stuff much.

My issue is with the argument that kids are a lifestyle choice. I firmly believe they are not and the opposite is true for the very small number of people who are truly infertile and choose not to adopt. If you want a child in your life, you can make it happen.
If you don't want a child in your life, then there are fewer options.

For the posters who asked, yes, it was a 100% mutual choice as we were both terrified of pregnancy. And to those who have intimated that I should go see a GP, I am well aware of contraception choices, and there failure rates, more so than most people.

Contraception, when used properly, is far more than 98% effective. Use 2 methods and I guarantee you will not get pregnant. I do not believe anyone who claims to have multiple contraceptive failures. What they mean is they did not use contraception correctly, and there is a difference. If you REALLY don’t want to get pregnant, you won’t.

guyropes, under no circumstances is "getting carried away" an excuse for ANY type of sexual behaviour. Would you expect this defence to be acceptable from a rapist ( I know men who do!!!)

Sexual urges can be controlled.

Nonsense Brandy.

That is exactly the attitude that annoys me so much. If you really don't want a baby, then the only option that is guaranteed is a termination. Whereas if you really want a baby, then there are avenues open to use. Whether they are acceptable to you or not is a totally different discussion.

Sex is a biological urge. That doesn't make it a right. Sex results in babies. We have many methods of contraception, and none of them are 100% safe. So if you don't want a baby, and you are not willing to accept the risk even with contraception, then don't have sex. YABU.

This.

And I think you are very glib about people in the opposite situation - those who desperately want a child and can't have one. Not wanting a baby is much, much easier to guarantee than having a baby.

I agree with Brandy. The pill works. If a person keeps getting pregnant on it then they're not taking it correctly.

It protects against pregnancy not stupidity

If you really don't want a baby, then the only option that is guaranteed is a termination.

No. Abstinence works 100%.

Don't have sex. Get sterilised, even if you have to, shocker!, pay for it yourself. Have a termination. Use two forms of contraception. Lots of options that don't include procreating.

I tell my children, be very careful about who you have sex with as you could be coparenting with them for the next 18 years.

hijk

No, you are right, in abusive situations 'getting carried away' is not an excuse. But it is a reality in many consensual situations.

I think some people get very judgemental about sexual behaviour, and end up in a 'well they should have kept their pants on' position, which although it might be morally justifiable, can be unrealistic

If you really don't want a baby, then the only option that is guaranteed is a termination.

What utter nonsense. You could both get sterilised and use condoms if you are that convinced that contraception is useless, which would be an alternative to having a termination.
But most people realise that using the pill/ coil and condoms combined is pretty much fail safe. All those people getting pregnant whilst using condoms must be in the 20% that get pregnant because they don't use them properly.

We tried for a baby for 7 years. This included 4 ivfs, a miscarriage and a stillbirth. Taking the pill and using a condom is so much more difficult?

I'm not getting what your AIBU is OP.

Contraception used properly is very effective.

As you say, nothing is 100% but it's as good as. And if you are still worried, double up on your contraception methods. You take the pill/have the implant/get the coil fitted, and have your partner use a condom as well.

My contraception was perfectly reliable for sixteen years before we decided to TTC, and I didn't need to abstain, get sterilised or have a termination in all that time.

And I get pregnant very, very easily. Staying pregnant is a different matter for me, but when we've TTC it's never taken us more than three months to conceive. Usually less.

Children are as much a lifestyle choice as remaining childless, if you have no fertility issues etc.

We chose to TTC and we now have a child. Because we chose to. For many years we chose not to conceive and contraception was 100% effective in allowing us that choice thought that time.

You can choose to abstain, have one or both of you sterilised, or use proper contraception, including the morning after pill (although the MAP should not be your main method of contraception) and if you use all of those options properly then the chances of an unwanted pregnancy are tiny.

YABU

Of course having children is a choice. So what if your only option is termination is your only option if you're unexpectedly pregnant getting an abortion is not expensive or difficult and plenty of people do it every day. And there are plenty of ways to avoid pregnancy, even if a condom does split or you forget to take the pill.

You make it sound as if the fact that some people have a strong urge to have sex means that everyone should automatically have children, and clearly, that's rubbish.

Sex is free, children aren't.

Exactly my point being reiterated by all of you.

Contraception isn't failsafe. It will result in babies.

Sadly, you are also then saying that you think that when it doesn't work, its the users fault. Something you have no basis for, except perhaps for anecdotal evidence of people using contraception stupidly.

Just because various people have managed to have sex for 17+ years without getting pregnant doesn't mean contraception always works. It just means it worked for them.

Stitch do you have any statistical evidence on the percentage of people who fall pregnant whilst using a hormonal type of contraception and the condom as a combination correctly? Until you can provide such statistical evidence I will assume that you are inaccurate about contraception being as unreliable as you are insinuating. Given that each of those methods are 97%+ effective (only 3 women in 100 will get pregnant in 10 years) I think the failure rate when using both methods combined must be very very tiny.