To dislike my teenage son

[Apple17]

I will probably be flamed for this but I'm at the end of my tether with him.
My son is 14 and completely unruly, he has no respect for anyone in our family, swears and is violent.
I love him so much but really dislike him, living with him is like living with a ticking bomb waiting for any minute when he's gonna explode into one of his rages.
His anger and violence is mainly aimed at his 10 year old sister, he is absolutely vile to her, calls her a fat bitch, wanker, c**t.. You name it he calls her it, she's a red head and he will also call her things like 'ginger prick'.. He hits her, pushes her, he's given her a fat lip before, she's no angel and I know at times she will probably wind him up as siblings do but he's reactions are extreme and it's got to the point where I don't want to leave them in the same room together, Its got to the point when I pick her up from school we both don't want to go home cos we know he will just be horrible, pick fights and be verbally abusive to us both so we will sit in costa for a couple of hours till DH comes home, I feel so sorry for her she has such a hard time and is always in tears by the way he's treated her or hurt her.
This morning has just pushed me over the edge, I was in the bedroom getting ready after a shower DD said she would feed the dog, 2 minutes later I hear world war 3 going off my DD run in the bedroom screaming holding her side, her brother had punched her and swore at her for apparently feeding the dog wrong! I go and speak with him and I get called a fat wanker and a face full of dog biscuits thrown at me... I just went to my room and broke down, I really have had enough of him. I'm also 5 months pregnant so feeling emotional as it is. I have tried to seek help for him for his anger problems, been to the doctors numerous times begging for help and I just get nowhere, the last doctors appointment resulted in a referral to camms?? (Not sure if that's what's it called) so will see how far we get with them although I'm not holding out much hope! Sorry it's so long I just wanted to explain the best I could.

Browsers no one couid possibly criticise your actions as you took steps to protect your family but in tandem to help your ds.

Good luck going forward.

agreed browsers and ime from schools there's also the reality that some children have issues beyond parenting or professional intervention (i know no one wants to know this but things such as sociopathy are real and don't just pop up out of nowhere in 40yo odd men in raincoats). i taught kids who were already diagnosed and already had one hell of a history of 'incidents' behind them both within and without the home.

i say all of this as someone who would have been accused of being an out of control child when actually i was being emotionally abused and neglected and raised in a very toxic situation but made the scapegoat and more often than not i'll be defending the demonised teen on mumsnet. but in a situation where, as is described on here, someone is abusing and assaulting and controlling members of their family and ruling through fear then of course they need to meet the consequences of their actions and of course the people taking the brunt of their behaviour need protecting.

this isn't a 'he swears and refuses to abide my controlling and over the top rules or to kiss the arse of the man i brought in ten minutes ago who sounds like a total prick who doesn't understand kids so i'm going to throw him out at 15' type post. it's very different.

bloody hell OP

I am ever so sorry you have this

I am sure you have had lots of advice but I think given the fact he is abusing a 10 year old this has got out of hand

I would tell him "next time you physically attack DD I am calling the police, I am warning you now". then call them, and let them know that he is physically hurting a child and you dont know what to do

I thionk you need to get to to bottom of why. is he desperately sad and unhappy, or is he just an evil little shit? you know better

not even remotely suprised that his Dad isnt around. classic isn't it

well I must be strange because my brothers and I fought like cat and dog.As did DH with his siblings and virtually everyone else I know with a brother.

Calling the police might just be the impetus the "professionals" need to get the system working and you help.
I strongly suspect that there is an undiagnosed condition here. Reading up on ASD/Aspergers might just give you a heads up on alternative techniques to use - and won't do any harm if that isn't the diagnosis.

You have to safeguard your DD.

If he continues to be violent you may have to really up the stakes with SS. It cannot continue.

when did you and your DS do something he loves together, just the 2 or you.

did you also beat up 10yo girls when you were 14 judge? or shout and swear and throw things at your pregnant mother as standard?

I don't know if you're strange or not Judge but you do have some strange ideas if you think male to female physical and emotional abuse is acceptable just because it's family!

Judge - my siblings and I fought like cat and dog, all the time, so yes, to a certain extent it's normal.
However, with my own ds, like the OP's, the level of violence is off the scale compared to normal sibling fights, and it's often seemingly out of the blue, until you unpick what happened and spot the trigger.

Ds has also hurt his dsis for feeding the dog wrong, he lashed out without warning. It was because he thought the dog was going to get ill because she fed it too much.

My husband and his brother physically fought their mother thought it would help them sort it out he is not fighting with his sister though he is beating her up because he can a fat lip a punch etc etc isn't siblings fighting this is way more serious than siblings fighting he is attacking her,

You have to involve SS and or the police. You have to protect your dd from being emotionally and physically abused in her own home.

But the OP didn't see of hear what happened? That is my point.I think she needs to keep them on a shorter leash, never let them be alone together until she has a handle on what the triggers are.
No I wouldn't have sworn at my mum like that, becvasue in those days you would have had a good hiding if you did.But my own DSs swore at me at that age ( I am a woman BTW despite my user name) but they grew out of it ( they were punished by being banned from screens for a day).At 16 and 19 now they are the most stable, loving mature sons I could wish for.

That is just one incident judge. And he punched her then threw something at the op.

This isn't scrapping and bickering - he is raising his fists.

I never swore at my parents either and that was not because I would have been 'given a hiding'.

Hi Apple, I have read the full thread, but skimmed through. I wanted to say how brave of you to admit how you feel about your son, I wasn't that brave but that is how I felt. He was very aggressive towards the family, had violent meltdowns but behaved at school. Some things I have learned are. This is not normal behaviour, a 'normal' child doesn't behave in this way, there WILL be a reason, there is always a reason. Finding the underlying cause can be difficult but is essential to turning this around for your family. My son was eventually diagnosed with ASD and is now in a specialist boarding school. It has saved this family and turned his life round. I am really hearing ASD from your posts, that triggers revolve around change in routines 'things not going his way' 'a creased blazer'. My advice would be to involve social services, I read you are awaiting a CAMHS appt, ring and chase it. Go into school and make an appt. You need to start telling, yelling, you have a problem here, you need to do that for your daughter, your new baby, yourself and husband, but do you know what you need to do this for your son! He doesn't want this for his life, he is miserable, angry people who are not coping are bot happy, this is a cry for help in the only way he knows how. With my son the signs of atypical development where always there, when we got the diagnosis it fit and explained. If this is all new and there are no clues to ASD aspergers ADHD then maybe you have to look at the possibility of a traumatic event like abuse that he is not disclosing. PM me if you like. I have loads to say on the subject! Its difficult to know which are the best bits to share at this point that you are at. Thinking of you

Is this a new thing Op? How far does it date back.?

OP protect your daughter. My parents allowed my brother to beat me up and verbally abuse me for years. It escalated to the point where I was in fear for my life but I was too young to leave.

They always played it down and victim blamed, wouldn't involve the authorities as they worried about his future. Funnily enough the day he attacked DF was the day they called the police.

He's now in his late 30s, still lives at home, refuses to pay rent, is a messy pig and verbally abuses DM but if that's how she intends to spend her retirement good luck to her. I never visit her there. I will never forgive them for allowing me to spend my childhood terrified in my own home and I'm still damaged by it.

Earlier apple mentioned that her DH had been around for 5 years and it had gone on that long at least.

I'd definitely have him assessed for SN, second the Tony Attwood recs and also suggest Ross Greene www.livesinthebalance.org/
www.livesinthebalance.org/parents-families
www.amazon.co.uk/The-Explosive-Child-Understanding-Chronically/dp/0061906190

He sounds like a deeply unpleasant individual. Why are you standing by and allowing your DD to be abused in her own home.
Do you realise what message this is sending to her? Unvelieveable

This may seen off the wall but if he is as phone obsessed as my teen DD and won't speak or listen to you try texting. I have only had to resort to it a few times (and not in such a serious situation) but it worked. Stops the blank I'm not listening etc (in your case Fuck off) or the endless arguing that blue is brown and going round in circles
(I listen to DD arguing with her dad sometimes ...it is eye opening - she has done the same to me too - better not to engage -hard hence a text being a good idea - she can text back but it is all there in black and white -no but 'you said this' etc...and you can think about your reply, say exactly what you want to not what you are pushed into.)
So 'What happened this morning with your sister can't continue, if it or similar happens again I will have no choice but to call the police. I don't want to do it and you can talk to me about it but you need to know this.'
And see what happens...

JUDGE
my 2 DS love each other to bits, play well. and yet they do have their little fights time to time- tis normal

this just does not read like normal sibling fights

he calls his 10 year old sister a fat ginget cunt, and batters her for feeding a dog

this reads like domestic abuise as opposed to normal spats??

capricorn

Someone mentioned Lives in the Balance a while ago.
this is a short video by Ross Greene (Explosive Kids) that I watch when we have bad times with ds. It's quite a motivator to get me out of the "Do as I say because I say so" rut that's so easy to fall into when trying to parent a tricky child.

Capricorn, I'm so sorry you went through that. We're trying desperately hard to help ds so his siblings don't go through similar. This involves constant supervision sometimes.

Very interestingDish, thanks for posting the link.