...to ask MN-ers NOT to join in this glorification of domestic abuse? (contains spoilers)

[Floundering]

Fifty Shades of Shite

Can't believe the naivety and abuse deniers on here and amongst my friends.

DV campaigners such as Womens Aid & National Centre for Domestic Violence are urging people not to see this film.

It is not "just a piece of fun" it normalises abusive, controlling relationships as sexy, and it really bothers me so many women are colluding in supporting such crap that could hurt other more vulnerable women.

The BDSM community are frothing too as if done properly between 2 consenting adults with lots of planning, mutual respect and lots of affection and downtime after it can, for some, apparently be mindblowing. ( doesn't lift my skirt but respect those who do enjoy) this is not portrayed safely in this film.

As I said I never say no to the sex just one vanilla act which I need him to actually ignore I can't help but say no no matter how hard I try. I do want him to continue It is not rape or rape role-play

That doesn't make sense. Why are you saying no if you want him to continue unless it is playing at rape?

The only other reason to say no is that you don't actually want him to do it. Is that it?

I just can't help it it is involuntary if I was to role play rape I would do that differently

But from his perspective at any rate, he is role-playing rape because he is carrying despite you saying no. Don't you agree?

No I don't because he knows when I truly want it to stop and he does technically it is not rape because it does not involve penetration so at best you could say assault which I would still deny

How does he know if you always say no to this and you always say yes to everything else?

So are you saying that I rape my wife from my explanation of No earlier?

Because we discuss it in length and have fully discussed everything we do in the bedroom instead couldn't do bdsm without a full open discussion and utter trust

Ignoring the incorrect suggestion that committing abuse is outside someone's control (it really isn't, whatever your secular or whoever you are attracted to), you appear to think that endorsing rape fantasies is fine, but endorsing child abuse fantasies isn't. Why is that?

My suggestion was that it was their thoughts and fantasies that were out with their control, of course their actions aren't.

And I guess I can endorse one because I have that fantasy and have the opinion that someone should get help with another because I don't have that fantasy.

I'm not sure actually, maybe its something to do with people who have rape fantasies do have a "community" as cheesy as that sounds, to discuss. And the "community" isn't completely underground and secret. Hell, we're discussing it on mumsnet aren't we? And you can role play a pretty realistic rape fantasy in a safe sane and consensual way.

I guess I don't feel those with child abuse have that same outlet, which in some ways is why its even more dangerous to push it further and further into the dark space of the internet and never let it out for genuine debate and thought.

Hmm.. I'm one who will admit my opinions can be swayed so since i'm not 100% convinced by my answer i think i'll go off and do some research. I find the workings of the human mind absolutely fascinating.

Rape is a serious crime, and whatever it is you guys do in the bedroom, it is pretty bloody offensive for you to call it rape if it isn't.

I think thats where the animosity started house a poster said that specifically not giving her consent to her DH was how she got off and by the end she enjoyed it, at no point did she feel raped. Then a lot of people said she was raped. By the letter of the law I guess she was raped. However i think the spirit of the law would say that undermines actual victims who have suffered real rape. But then again, is it undermining victims yet again to say that non-consent is ok because they're married? Of course it is! But at the end of the day, the poster didn't feel she had been a victim of rape so I guess thats where the muddied waters have ensued then. I said DH "raped" me, because if I had tried to say that the "surprise" of it couldn't be consented to at that precise moment in time but that we have ongoing consent until its taken away, I would have got a mirage of "but consent wasn't given so its rape". Even thought I don't feel raped. Hmm, i think my mind is going to explode its been a long day!

I'm not sure who your post was directed to Hamiltoes. When you say: "never let it out for genuine debate and thought" it puzzles me. There has been a fairly robust view on here that we cannot challenge or discuss other people's thoughts if that might make them feel ashamed or that their thoughts are wrong, because people's thoughts are never wrong. I think you have been saying in more recent posts that you don't entirely agree with that.

Despite what some have said, a number of people on here (including me) have been trying to discuss genuine thought (I don't like to call it debate) around concepts of types of BDSM and other abuse scenarios, including those described in FSOG. I'd be interested in your thoughts about this.

^^That was to the post before your last.

I admit we have gone off track from bdsm into other realms such as thought which was not appropriate in this context really
I am happy to discuss bdsm and talk about our thoughts on it but I think we need to put previous negative comments behind us. I will apologise for rude comments I made and would love an open friendly and polite conversion with you flora as it has been interesting

Hamiltoes I think you're overlooking that the introduction to that had been a discussion about whether the book portrayed rape. A number of posters were claiming it didn't and that led them to talk about their own experiences.

It is not really debatable that the book does portray rape in the scene where Grey breaks into Ana's house.

To talk about their own experiences as in "it wasn't rape in the book because my H does that to me and it isn't rape" (paraphrasing). It wasn't the case that people were searching around to say "that's rape" in the context of people's own experiences.

I suppose with regards to the books and films is whether it will be portrayed in that manner in the film which as of yet we do not know and to ensure that we educate children and young adults as to the difference between rape and consensual activities. I am not saying the scene isn't a rape scene just that it does allow for a discussion as to the different kinds of actual rape which we need to have with youngsters

Flora I think my thoughts on FSOG were away back in the 400s before this thread went bonkers haha!

I think its a horrible book and I think promoting rape and abuse, dressed up as "BDSM" and releasing it on valentines night as loves young dream is awful. Did you see the MN movie thread of 50 shades a few weeks ago?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/films/a2276879-Fifty-Shades-of-Grey-will-you-succumb

And yes i gave numberous examples way back in this thread to people who were claiming it was BDSM and not rape/ abuse. It is rape and it is abuse, he stalks her, pressurises her, coerces her, cuts her off from friends and family. I wish this thread had stuck to everything thats wrong with 50 shades but it definitely got very muddled in the process!

I also claimed way back that he displayed stalker and obsessive tendencies

It is 11 pm and bedtime for me thank you everyone for an interesting conversation I will catch up tomorrow if it's still here

BDSM is for inadequate losers

www.ohjoysextoy.com/50shadesofgrey/

This little gem pretty much sums up the whole thread (except the 400 posts where we all got sidetracked )

Purebirdy just get lost or at least argue a point.

House I think so many overlook the scene in the book because you are in her head and in her head she enjoys it. I know this isn't expressed to him at the start But that's how it goes.