to move DD from her nice independent school where she has a scholarship because her brother didn't get offered one?

[middleschoolmuddle]

We are not rich but nor are we poor. The school have offered us a 16% bursary for DS - it's not enough.

Would it be mean to move DD to a state school at this stage (Y9)? Has anyone done this?

I can't think straight, my mind is whirring so I'd love some perspective from those of you that have managed to use the local 'good' state schools and pass up the rather nice (best in County) independent one.

There is so much weight being put on independent schools then Oxbridge. Come on people! Encourage your kids to do science and go to, shock horror, somewhere like Imperial . They will be snapped up the second they leave in to great jobs.

I am feeling really sorry for children who are being educated to believe and starts and ends with Oxbridge. I guess that is a whole new thread....

theforce
Agree completely - My DC know people who positively did not apply for Oxbridge in favour of Imperial. I was just replying to the particular Oxbridge application point. There is of course the small point that Imperial is hugely competitive and hard to get into

T'was just an example though....there are, of course, many other universities in the UK worthy of consideration by Oxbridge-types. I would love to see a shift away from the widely held belief that Oxford and Cambridge are the pinnacle of academia as it's just not the case. [reaches for hard hat]

My brother went to the "Catholic Eton" as they like to describe themselves. He is now an entitled, self-centred grabby prck. That school may have got him to Oxford, but he has no manners nor respect for anyone else*.

I have met a few Eton Boys and also been in pub garden with Prince William and his friends ( large group). PW was lovely, self depreciating, sweet, took piss out of his more...boasty friends...

I found the other boys to mini Nicholas Soames types.

My personal anecdote means nothing, But I have met lots of Boarding school boys, friends and boy friends, from Bloxham, Reading Blue Coats, Bradfield, Harrow, St Pauls, Oratory and I have to say, mostly normal men, except the Eton ones...This is just my personal experience.

I think Cambridge is beautiful, I would like DC to go there, however London would also be brilliant, my own uni was shite and ugly, I would like them to be in a pleasant environment.

Just wanted to say thank you to the OP. I know this thread is borne out of your difficult situation and I hope you have found the advice you were searching for. It's been fascinating.

I might even head over to some of the education threads.....

I didn't plough through the whole thread, but unless you have given very good reason in the part I didn't read, I think you have been stupid and irresponsible.

We spent a year deciding whether to go the private route, projecting finances and interest rates/ university fees etc. I'd be fed up if I were one of th other parents and school had upped the.bursary just because you couldn't be bothered to think ahead.

WillBeat - he didn't go to THE Eton, although a few of my DS's friends are heading that way in a few years time and they are sweet boys (so far). It all depends on the personality of the child, anyway. DB's friends were/are all v nice (many of whom are now either on the telly or in the House of Lords). DD's friends are all very nice (at one of the most expensive schools in Yorkshire coughs stealth boast). DS's friends are all v nice (feeder school for a v famous independent school howdidthatgetinthere?).

It's just my brother who is a complete *rse but most of that is envy, I think.

However, I was also at school (boarding school) with a girl who sent her son to Harrow. She said "My friend couldn't believe how big Ampleforth was. I said to her, you should see Harrow. It's bigger than the whole town!" - so boasty one-up-man/womanship isn't limited to East Anglia nor the moderately well off, either!

Cambridge is v nice, and it's paved the way for my own DH to have a stellar career, but I also know Cambridge graduates who are not doing much, I'm afraid.

I also think it's a generational thing. I was having lunch near Cambridge and overheard two recent graduates talk about a 3rd person - apparently his mum phones him up each morning to make sure he's out of bed and ready to go to work. Did our mums do that for us? No way! If we didn't go to work, we'd be sacked, so we made sure we went to work....

And somebody up thread (was it Zero? ) seemed to be suggesting a 'culture' of thinking it was okay to be in the dock (of a court of law) could be avoided through private ed. All I can say is: What about the privately educated offspring of jailed cabinet ministers, bankers, doctors, people who have killed by dangerous driving, crooked lawyers, gangstas?

Except that that wasn't what I meant. The UK is "institutionally" nasty in so many ways. For many parents scraping together the fees for a stellar independent school can be a way to help their child swerve the future that is imposed upon them. By teachers with low expectations. By the police. By courts ...

I'm using simple words because I don't even want to be talking about this.

Thanks for the simple words, Zero. I wasn't sure that's what you meant, but I am still not sure what you did mean :-). I suppose for some /many youngsters private ed and uni will never be an aspiration, which is a good reason for top-notch state education. I don't think for ANYONE being in court is an actual aspiration either. But it's possibly a pointless digression from the main thrust of the thread anyway.

theforce I'm glad I started the thread. I know that I don't have all the answers and that I go about things in what looks like an arse about face way sometimes. I've been doing some reading about agile methodology and it struck me that some of my ways could be described as 'agile', particularly this value: Responding to change over following a plan. [I can hear you all laughing.]

I've also never thought of myself as a risk taker and this thread has shown e that I am a bit of a risk taker. I'm a little bit proud of this although I don't want us to lose our family home or anything like that.

Thanks again to all of you for your contributions. See you on the other education threads (under a different name) but you'll probably all recognise me what with my distinctive posting style and all.

me

OP - agile methodology relies on strong infrastructure and well understood use cases, you can't be agile if you don't have those in place!

Desperate to post on this thread as I have loved reading it over the last few days, thank you for giving me something to do whilst drinking my tea!

I love you OP !

muttersdarkly - fantastic posts.

All this stuff breaks my heart. I have recently spent multiple days interviewing potential candidates for my (top-ranked in its field) university.

I looked at some results; I never looked at their school (I wouldn't know one school from another, having not been educated in the UK); mainly I looked at whether they were the right candidate as a human being, with a genuine talent and passion for their subject, and everything else came second to this.

Your poor DD, and your poor DS. I know you have been trying to do everything you can for them, I wish I had something more concrete to offer you than my sympathy. But good heavens, what a mess.

I guess I just mean - please don't lose your home, whatever else happens. There are always ways and means!

middleschoolmuddler yes you are taking risks, and not in a very agile way (especially given that your decision is basically to stick with the status quo and hope things will work out!). Agile thinking is all about quick iterations and isn't something that can really be applied to long term planning like educational options which is about decisions that apply to years, not weeks.

Unfortunately you are not taking risk in a planned and managed way. I see no evidence that you have thought through the potential consequences of your action, weighed up the pros and cons and put in place contingencies. 'It will be OK' is not a strategy! (I'm a risk manager) As an approach I'd class it in the 'ignore risk' category.

The issue is that if nothing has changed financially in the next year then the same decision needs to be faced, but the options may be worse. The dd is a year down the line which would make changing schools more difficult from both a friendship and a educational point of view. The ds might not get a place at either the indie or the 'good' state school, and if state is still the only option may feel more of a failure/more aggrieved.

It only works if the OP gets serious about working, includes options that are 'boring', lower status or that don't directly enhance her CV and recognises that some sacrifice of her time needs to be made to achieve her private school dreams for her family.

But increasing the mortgage is not that much of a risk? The repayments are still doable.

Personally I wouldn't do it that way as it's just a stupidly expensive way of doing it.

But not risky. Everyone who has a mortgage takes the risk that they will not be able to meet the repayments and become homeless. And the levels the OP suggests as a ratio of income are in line with people in the south east.

Surely if the worst comes to the worst, we sell our property, pay off our mortgage and buy a smaller property mortgage free. Plenty of people are living (quite happily) in houses that cost 300K but with 20 odd years to run on a £150K mortgage. I really don't see that as a huge risk nooka.

I haven't read all of the replies but felt compelled to post as it reminded me of my upbringing. I moved schools for the beginning of year 9 (we moved 200 miles for my dad's job). It was absolutely fine. I wouldn't say it had any impact on my GCSE's in the slightest. I always went to the local comprehensive but have very supportive (and somewhat over-achieving) parents. My sister at the same school who is two years older was desperate to go to Cambridge - got a place but offer was conditional on a 4th A-level which she missed the grade for by a whisker (she was sort of teaching it to herself as our school didn't offer it). Took a gap year, re-applied to Oxford and got in ending up with a double first. I was encouraged to apply to Cambridge - didn't get in but went to Imperial (highly recommend). My parents were concerned about the fact that neither of us had the school support to get into Oxbridge (only because my sister really wanted to go, they weren't necessarily pushing us down that route) so then decided to send my younger two siblings privately (there is a fair age gap). I had actually been given the option by my parents to go privately for 6th form but I decided to stay put. At least one of my younger siblings also applied to Oxbridge but didn't get in (!) however both ended up going to top universities and both got firsts. This was all nearly 20 years ago so who knows what has changed! I guess my point is, none of us have an issue with going to different schools - I don't resent my siblings having the experience of a private education and I don't think they have an issue with having a longer commute/friends living further away. We were lucky as we had supportive parents who essentially did everything in their power to help us achieve what we wanted and that meant going to the school that was best for each of us individually. I also believe that parents are a massive part of how well kids achieve at school and it is not entirely necessary to go to an independent school to do well.

Now as a parent (although kids not at secondary school yet so may change my opinion), I think the good of the whole family does also have to be considered. To OP - your daughter is old enough to have an opinion on whether she wants to move schools (apologise if you have covered this!). If she wants to stay and you can make it work them going to different schools then I wouldn't move her. I think you have to treat your children fairly, but not necessarily exactly the same (equality vs equity).

anyway, enough of my ramblings. Good luck with your decisions!

Thanks for sharing choco, I'm with you on equality vs equity and we also have a bit of a 'whoever's need is the greatest' policy going here too.

I'm really going to miss this thread, I've loved hearing all your experiences and ideas and criticisms. I am taking it all in so please know that you have all helped.

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Link to PART 2