To hope we look back on this in horror?

[Fanfeckintastic]

I'm in Ireland and recently watched a documentary about Irish women going to England for abortions because it's illegal over here. I was saying to DP that hopefully one day we'll be able to look back on this with the same horror we do at the fact interracial couples were once not allowed to marry, homophobia etc but he doesn't think it's comparable because interracial marriages and homosexuality etc involves consenting adults. In my opinion abortion involves a consenting adult, that's it.

I'm not saying they're the exact same thing but am I unreasonable to hope that one day we'll look back at the fact it was illegal in my country to have a choice about what we do with our own uterus?

Soon to be and others, what gives you the right to take away a women's autonomy? No one would be able to force you to have and abortion, so why can you force them not have one? God created us with free will to make choices, do you think you can override God? I am from a very Conservative religious community btw, but we believe that God would not give people the skills to perform procedures if we weren't meant to have them. Nobody would undergo an abortion lightly, whatever, the media would have you believe. I do however, believe the upper limit should be considerably lower, as my nephew was born and lived (though with severe CP) at 26 weeks.

Marmite that's a ridiculous argument do you think God gave suicide bombers the skills to make bombs so He wants them to be built.
Do you think you can override God and end a life He has created?

And how would that work if you don't believe in God?. This is where the God argument falls down to me. Why should religious beliefs have any bearing on my right to have an abortion in the country in which I live? Disagree with abortion all you want - do it in churches, in your house, with colleagues, just don't legislate my choice with your religion.

kitty I'm so sorry for your loss

There needs to be a alternative. And not bloody adoption. That system is broken. It doesn't work. And it doesn't help the pregnant woman who doesn't want to go through with pregnancy.

What if more research was done into collecting a foetus, and placing it into another womb of a couple unable to have a child? I have a friend undergoing IVF with donor eggs because she doesn't want to adopt. The child won't be hers biologically, but she wants to carry it through pregnancy. Is that even feasible? I don't know. But it cuts in quicker than adoption.

Wiggle I had the same beliefs before I became a Christian I was just replying to Marmite specific argument.

What are anti abortionists stance on the coil? Because that works so if an egg and sperm do meet and implant, that it won't be able to implant properly and it will leave like a period.

I had one fitted last week and the doctor told me this.

So... Is that an abortion? Should that be illegal too?

Wondering I am impressed that the doctor told you that many don't. I don't agree with the coil no or the mini pill.

There's just a little problem with the "God done did it" argument. The fact that He doesn't fucking exist.

Even if he did, you WILL NOT be allowed to enforce your stone age, ridiculous dogmas on civilised secular society, because we simply won't allow it. The world is marching on, people are becoming more free, people are educating themselves and bettering themselves. Your shitty, misogynistic views will be looked upon with horror in just a few short years, and many of us are looking on in horror already.

Your book condones slavery and gives instructions for how to engage in the practice, as ONE example of its horrors, so forgive me if I don't give a shit what Yahweh thinks about my bodily autonomy and right to medical care.

LeSaor it is your choice whether you believe in God's existence or not. It doesn't change the fact the unborn baby exists.

So why, if some horror of a being stabs a pregnant mother and kills the baby do they not get prosecuted as a murderer?

I can't believe Ireland is allowed in the EU with it's current abortion stance - so much for equality and human rights!

But why should your feelings on other peoples contraceptive choices/decision on whether to carry on with a pregnancy, be more valid than my feelings that a women should have a right to choose?
And if its to do with morality, I see nothing morally right in forcing.a women to carry a child that she does not want, nor in having children born into circumstances that impact on them negatively. Which would no doubt be the case if born to a mother who, by restriction on her choices, was forced to carry a child to term against her wishes.
And adoption, while lovely in theory, still puts a woman (pre-existing human) through all the risks/changes and impacts that a pregnancy can have on a body.
As for contraception, no contraceptive is fail safe.

Woo hoo, I'm an extremist - happy with that.

I believe in a woman's right to abortion for any reason, as early as possible and as late as necessary.

I don't believe that anyone except the woman concerned has any right to decide what she does with her own body and what is inside her own body.

I don't believe that anyone should be forced to have an abortion, nor should anyone be forced to have an unwanted child.

I am absolutely, completely and totally Pro-Choice.

No, the "fact" is that a zygote exists. It's your religiously-motivated OPINION that it is an "unborn baby", which suggests equal rights to a fully developed, sentient human being. Your OPINION and choice of vocabulary does not give you the right to enforce your baseless opinion on people who don't believe in your particular version of god.

Fun fact, up to 60% of first pregnancies end up as undetected chemical pregnancies and the fertilised egg fails to take hold or develop. God's the biggest abortionist of them all. He also loves miscarriages and stillborns, apparently.

"Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock." - Psalms 137:9

Hold onto your rosaries kids, I'm going to heaven after all!

YANBU OP - I long for the day all women have a choice

LeSaor babies survive outside the womb at 23 weeks and earlier which is still within the legal abortion limit.

eve I also agree with your stance.

-at the very least a world where women who are raped are not terrified to come forward and report it so that they can receive treatment and don't become pregnant

Bumbley, how does reporting rape prevent women from becoming pregnant? If, as I suspect, you're talking about something like the morning after pill, how does that differ from having an abortion? You are still ending a life that has started.

oh here's the emotive 'babies survive' line ...not without heaps of medical intervention they don't ...and most don't at 23 weeks

it's not relevant to the debate at all

Does anyone think men should have to give their kidneys to their children to help them survive?

Thought not.

I'm still waiting for one of the anti abortionists on here to say how many children they have adopted. Surely if you feel so strongly about refusing to allow abortions and putting the unwanted child up for adoption then you have a moral responsibility to adopt a child rather than trying to conceive. Or is it acceptable for these children to spend the rest of their lives in care?

Soon Your response is hysterical and ridiculous, of course we don't believe that! Medicine is part of our enlightenment and is beneficial to mankind, which is what we believe God desires, for all people. The very fact that you equate abortion and terrorism shows your irrationality. I also find your comment vvv. offensive given recent world events.

I'm an extremist.

Do I get a badge?

OP, YANBU. Forced birthers hate women, simple as that.

And what if it wasn't "the mother's choice" that a pregnancy was started, IfYoureAWiz?

Then she can give the baby up for adoption if she cannot cope with bringing it up for whatever reason - but the fact remains, that a life has begun and I don't believe that it is anyone's right to end it simply because it is inconvenient to them.

IfYoureAWizard, please tell me you don't seriously believe that rape victims have their pregnancies terminated just because having a baby would be inconvenient to them? Have you any conception of the horror of being raped and then having to spend 9 months with your rapist's child growing in your uterus and having to give birth to it? And how about the mental effects on that child of finding out how theycame into the world and why they were given up for adoption?