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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hope we look back on this in horror?

674 replies

Fanfeckintastic · 03/02/2015 23:31

I'm in Ireland and recently watched a documentary about Irish women going to England for abortions because it's illegal over here. I was saying to DP that hopefully one day we'll be able to look back on this with the same horror we do at the fact interracial couples were once not allowed to marry, homophobia etc but he doesn't think it's comparable because interracial marriages and homosexuality etc involves consenting adults. In my opinion abortion involves a consenting adult, that's it.

I'm not saying they're the exact same thing but am I unreasonable to hope that one day we'll look back at the fact it was illegal in my country to have a choice about what we do with our own uterus?

OP posts:
AskBasil · 04/02/2015 17:50

No YANBU

It is horrifying that so many people have so much contempt for women that they are prepared to force us to go through the nearly 10 months of pregnancy with its social and economic disadvantages and its short, medium and long term health risks, followed by the agony and danger of childbirth with its long term effect on the body, followed either by unchosen motherhood or the emotional and psychological damage of giving up a baby with the attendant regret and guilt.

Men can't even be forced to give blood unless they freely agree to it, even if it's to save someone else's life. Women are expected to give their lives and long term emotional health. Can you imagine men being legally forced to go through the equivalent inconvenience and side effects of pregnancy, against their will, for someone else's benefit? Can you imagine the horror at the inhumanity of such an attack on their basic human rights?

You only need to look at the subject of abortion to see how far women still have to go, to be considered as human as men.

AskBasil · 04/02/2015 17:52

I blogged about this

muminhants · 04/02/2015 17:57

So why is illegal in Northern Ireland? Is it just a sop to the south because they know if it were allowed many women would pour over the border?

Because it's not possible to get on a boat or plane to the rest of the UK?

Astonishing.

As for adoption - yes nice idea. I don't disagree - it's stupid that on the one hand you have women desperate to have kids, and on the other desperate NOT to have kids. It would be very nice to match them up. In Utopia.

But in the real world, there is nothing that justifies forcing a woman to go through 10 months of pregnancy against her will.

LeSaor · 04/02/2015 18:06

The people who say give it up for adoption 99/100 times don't have any adopted children themselves. Or usually even know anyone with adopted children. Yo put your money where your mouth is if adoption is so wonderful and life saving. You won't even adopt any of the existing children that so need homes so what the fuck do you think is going to happen when all these millions more children enter the system?! Awful logic from IMO awful people

bumbleymummy · 04/02/2015 18:10

LeSaor "Because non sentient balls of cells with the future potential of life"

What stage of pregnancy are you talking about there?

BeyondDoesBootcamp · 04/02/2015 18:15

Everything basil said.

TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain · 04/02/2015 18:16

It's absolutely archaic and a lot of our laws are here. The church does not have the strong hold it once did but when things like votes a d referendums about these types of issues come along, the people who come out and vote are the older generation, those who are still led by church and Catholic guilt.

In fact the gay marriage act will not pass this year unless younger people get out and vote. They are already looking at the abortions law in horror, the anti gays en time bt, the misogynistic nature that pervades certain things here, but they and we need to get vocal, get active and make change

bumbleymummy · 04/02/2015 18:19

Ifyourawizard - you are completely entitled to your opinion and you are not alone. Don't allow the extremists to shout you down. Some of them think that abortion should be allowed right up until the moment of birth for any reason.

TakeMeUpTheNorthMountain · 04/02/2015 18:19

Someone who supports abortion as a safe and legal measure is not an exremist

bumbleymummy · 04/02/2015 18:21

Someone who thinks it should be allowed to term for any reason is.

DrElizabethPlimpton · 04/02/2015 18:24

I don't think anyone would consider having an abortion lightly, but I find it horrific that a bunch of judgement arses think they have the right to decide what a woman does with her own body.

ArabellaStrange · 04/02/2015 18:27

Have any of you anti-choicers looked at the statistics concerning unsafe abortions prior to legalisation?
Women died having pregnancies ended.
Women are still dying in countries where it is illegal to terminate pregnancies.
There are multitudes of good valid reasons to end a pregnancy.
An actual persons rights should outweigh a potential persons rights, every time.

TheFecklessFairy · 04/02/2015 18:27

That's Catholic countries for you.

bumbleymummy · 04/02/2015 18:29

Arabella - they didn't have access to contraception back then either. Tehys till don't in many countries. I rarely see people shouting about that - they just focus on the lack of abortion.

NeverFinishWhatYouStarted · 04/02/2015 18:33

Bumbleymummy, that's the kind of ill-logic that characterises these kind of debates. No-one on this thread has talked about full-term "abortion". By definition, to abort something means to stop it before it is complete.

So far, the only extremists on the thread (again, by definition, someone whose views are at the outer edges of the spectrum of opinion) are those who say no to abortion in any circumstances.

Why is it that anti woman pro-lifers are keen to protect their own rights to free speech but disregard any attempt to temper their own views?

wigglesrock · 04/02/2015 18:34

TheFecklessFairy - how do you explain the law in NI then?

I'm in NI - whether or not you agree with abortion isn't the point. I want the same legal rights as other women in the UK.

bumbleymummy · 04/02/2015 18:38

I have no problem with people expressing their views Never. I have just been on plenty of threads where the extremists will shout me down for my 'extreme' opinion while expressing their own. I don't agree with them and I don't expect them to agree with me. I tend to be a lot more polite though. :)

Electriclaundryland · 04/02/2015 18:38

I agree Wigglesrock, it astounds me it is still illegal in parts of the UK.

KittyandTeal · 04/02/2015 18:40

I'm first generation English on my DF side. All the family are from cork.

I recently had a tfmr as our dd had Edwards syndrome, a chromosomal defect that is incompatible with life.

It dawned on me last week that if my grandparents hadn't moved here with my dad and I'd been born in Ireland then I would have been forced to continue my pregnancy, waiting for her to either be still born or to be born at full term in lots of pain and die within a few weeks. What a cruel decision to have taken from you.

I all this mess I hang on to the fact that I was able to make a decision that I felt was in the best interests of our baby and our family.

Blistory · 04/02/2015 18:42

I find the idea of forcing a woman to endure pregnancy and child birth much more extreme than the concept of abortion to term.

It's all very well to state that you're anti-abortion but that you'd allow it in certain circumstances. How is that logical ? The end consequences are the same - the termination of a pregnancy so why does it matter how the pregnancy arose ?

It's horrific that you'd allow a rape victim an abortion but force another woman to continue with a pregnancy. Where's the morality in that ? Who gets to judge one woman's worthiness over another ? And why allow the less worthy woman to become a parent ? Do you suggest that we have panels that determine a woman's virtue or put a value on her life ? How would you measure it ?

I have no problem with someone who is opposed to abortion not having one themselves but to have them interfere with the rights of all other women is unacceptable. There isn't a grey area, either women have autonomy or they don't.

AskBasil · 04/02/2015 18:43

It is not extreme to believe that people should not be forced to put their own lives, health and welfare on the line for someone else's benefit. It is not extreme to believe that women should have the same human rights as men.

SoonToBeSix · 04/02/2015 18:46

I couldn't disagree more , I hope one day we look back on current abortion laws in England in horror. Sadly I doubt that will be the case.

basgetti · 04/02/2015 18:47

Why do some anti-choicers continue to claim adoption is a valid alternative to abortion? It is an alternative to child rearing, not pregnancy.

Kelly1814 · 04/02/2015 18:49

It's also still illegal to have an abortion in jersey in the Channel Islands.

DuchessofBuffonia · 04/02/2015 19:03

YANBU OP.

As far as the 'to term' argument is going. According to the stats I could find, in 2011, 91% of abortions were at less that 13 weeks gestation, with 78% at less than 10 weeks.

Surely a step in the right direction would be to legalise it for the first trimester?