To hope we look back on this in horror?

[Fanfeckintastic]

I'm in Ireland and recently watched a documentary about Irish women going to England for abortions because it's illegal over here. I was saying to DP that hopefully one day we'll be able to look back on this with the same horror we do at the fact interracial couples were once not allowed to marry, homophobia etc but he doesn't think it's comparable because interracial marriages and homosexuality etc involves consenting adults. In my opinion abortion involves a consenting adult, that's it.

I'm not saying they're the exact same thing but am I unreasonable to hope that one day we'll look back at the fact it was illegal in my country to have a choice about what we do with our own uterus?

Oh, and disabled babies not easily adopted. Why Bumbley would you encourage anyone to progress with a pregnancy that will result in a child with limited life expectancy and suffering severe pain? What is right about that?

Sabrina, I don't personally attack them. My opinions may upset them, yes, given my position on abortion but discussion doesn't usually get shut down on MN at the risk of upsetting/offending people.

If someone came along who had had a stillbirth and found it upsetting that people were saying that they supported abortion to term and that the foetus was nothing/not alive/not important until it was born would you be attacking those posters for their comments? I doubt it.

Bumbley did you WATCH the video I posted?

Will, why are you asking me to answer for someone else/an entire group of people? I'm not brushing you off - I've answered for me and that's all I can do.

You don't upset me bumbley. I admit you confuse me and your intransigence is annoying and angers me. But no you don't upset me.

I dread to think how much you could upset someone vulnerable or at their lowest ebb though.

Some of it ghosty - why? Do you think I've never heard these types of stories before?

AGAIN with the abortion to term! You are the only one bringing it up! Stop trying to draw people in to your silly argumentative games and answer the questions you're asked.

Here's another one for you to dodge...why do you believe a woman should be forced to endure a pregnancy when she has been given the diagnosis that her baby has a fatal foetal abnormality? Straight answer please, for once in our discussions.

Well I'm glad to hear that you're not upset Enormouse. It isn't my intention to upset people.

You said that analogy doesn't work because the idea that an unimplanted embryo is the same as an implanted one is ridiculous - that is not 'answering for yourself', you didn't say 'in my opinion', you declared it as fact.

Oh bumbley

Please don't strike through the word 'ridiculous' on my account- anyway the more you denigrate what I've said as 'crap' or 'unintelligent' the more obvious it is that your cage has been rattled.

And that makes me feel all warm and glowy inside

Bumbley I have just read this thread and been truly appalled at the lack of compassion you have shown to PPs who have shared difficult experiences. It is quite clear that you don't think women's rights or emotions matter in this context. Decide what's right for you when you have an unwanted pregnancy, what the hell gives you the right to dictate to others?

Baby, i've answered you on this before and you don't like my answer and then people attack me for answering you honestly because it upsets you. Do we have to go through it all again?

The mention of abortion to term there is very relevant because people's opinion on that can (and has) upset people who have experienced still birth yet no one criticises or attacks those posters. Double standards.

did it not move you in the slightest Bumbley - what the archaic abortion laws in Ireland does to families at their lowest moment?

You support that do you? Forcing grieving parents to travel abroad to end a much wanted pregnancy ?

Really?

I'm not sure about that, bumbley - I've seen your posts deleted a few times.

A fair few things might upset a woman who had had a stillborn baby - but nobody discussing abortion is attacking her, or her actions. You directly attack women who have had abortions, even if most of your posts stay within guidelines, they're still attacks on her.

I even once saw you use the word 'murder' to a mother that was talking about her abortion. I believe it was deleted, and you appear to know better than that now, (for that we may all be thankful). But we all know you're thinking it.

Sigh.

-

For the several people who have used the 'If you don't like abortion don't have one" soundbite. Should we apply the same logic elsewhere in the legal system?

If you don't like theft, don't steal.
If you don't like drugs, don't take them.
If you don't like murder, don't kill people.

---

This is just nonsense. Only the drugs analogy is even remotely comparable and it's not even working in your favour.

If you don't like drugs, you can, indeed, just not take them. If you want to take them, then you will, regardless of what the law says. Just like how, in countries where abortion is outlawed they still take place.

And, whilst it's an argument for another thread, I'm all for massively relaxed drugs laws - because banning things that people want to do plain doesn't work.

You would have upset me a few weeks ago bumbley when I was very upset and trying to make a decision. Thank God I didn't run into you then.

Oh and can you answer assassin's question?

As Prohibition exemplified' Kid.

Fine Will, in my opinion, it is ridiculous to compare the too. You can go and ask other people's opinions now.

sorry to burst your bubble biro but you don't rattle me the slightest. You have given me a good laugh though. It lightened the thread somewhat.

Humphrey, what other threads do posters criticise others for expressing opinions that may upset others? Where else do people try to prevent people commenting or criticise people for expressing their opinion because it might upset someone?

Has anyone who has experienced a still birth actually come here to say they were upset by discussion of late term abortion?

Just asking because I've had a miscarriage (at 12 weeks) and I get really pissed off by anti-choice people trotting out lines like "talking about a bundle of cells is so offensive to someone who has lost a much-wanted baby" or "you wouldn't say that to someone who's had a miscarriage" or "how can you be pro-choice if you've experienced a miscarriage" etc. etc. etc. When actually I am very pro-choice and not offended at all.

Bumbley you and I, and many others on this thread, know you have never given a straight answer to my question.

Go on, be a dear and spell it out.

There are lots of threads where posters show a lack of compassion Bumbley - often they try to dress this up as bravely speaking their views too. Benefits bashing springs to mind. I criticise and where relevant report them too. This isn't censorship, it's disagreement.

"Saskia, I'm not usually the one making nasty remarks and personal attacks. It's usually other people's posts that are deleted for that. There was one on the first page of this thread."

No, you are the one, you really are.

5 miscarriage here - absolutely not in the slightest bit bothered by people referring to 'cells' or having terminations

And for the record, I had a still birth and I still support abortion to term.

But please let's not give Bumbley more leeway to go off on that tangent.

Really - you don't come across amused - you do seem desperate to get rid of an argument you cannot answer