to think you shouldn't always make children move for adults on a bus?

[RocketInMyPocket]

Was having a bit of a chit chat with some other mums this morning after dropping of ds.
We were talking about buses, and how people were inconsiderate on them etc.
It made me think of an incident that happened a year or so ago.
Ds was about 4, and dd was 2 and in her buggy.
We had been shopping in town all day, and got the bus home.
It was really packed, I was standing up with the buggy, and ds was sitting next to a lady on a chair near me. There were quite a few people standing.
A lady got on, and asked me if he was my son. I said yes, and she said 'Can you make him move up so I can sit down'.
Now she wasn't a small lady, and neither was the lady he was already sitting next to, he would've been crushed between them!!
I said, 'Well, not really, there isn't exactly room'.
Then she told me to make him move so she could sit down.
I told her no, he had been walking all day, his little legs were knackered and as the bus was so busy I didn't really want him standing, I thought it was much safer for him to be sitting down.
She started going mental about no respect these days blah blah blah.
She was only on the bus for 3 stops .
I have always made ds move on the bus for the elderly, or a pregnant woman etc, but do you think kids should always have to get up for adults on the bus?

Have you honestly never been on a bus where the front is really crowded and people are stood really close to each other?

If someone's facing the other way they may well not be aware of a small child behind them if they get thrown back.

A child could easily get squashed or missed between two higher people

bigger

Ive nearly collided with children on the bus so I know what you mean giles

I think if your children are able and you haven't paid for them, then you should put them on your knee if somebody is standing.
If they are older and you have paid half fare and they are able to stand then they should give up seat for elderly or disabled, but I think everybody who is able should do.

Im not going to argue about who pays sits because its a moot argument.
Ever go into a shopping centre with a four year old? They get stood on,bags in the face,accidently hit or walked on. It appears that a huge number of people don't see small children.

Someone demanding a seat from a child is a bully. If they need a seat that badly they should ask an adult.

A crowded bus/train with children young enough to go on your knee, yes I think you should do that! I've twice been on trains where a 3 or 4 year old has sat on a seat (with a table) or the seats where no table (fold up table) and they were small enough to sit on mum's lap. the train was seriously overcrowded too (but that's another matter). My mum did it with my brother and I and I rarely see it now!

Generally though child on bus/train should have their own seat if possible.

Someone demanding a seat from a child is a bully. If they need a seat that badly they should ask an adult.

No, not a bully, they are asking that the regulations are adhered to. In the case the OP describes a woman asked that a child move so that she could sit down, as per regulations. If the parent paid full fare then she has an answer for both the woman and the driver who may insist the regulations are kept to.

If the rules are clear on the notice it isn't bullying to ask that a child gives up a seat.

One could certainly suggest to the company that the rules be changed in the case of an under 8 year old but until then the simple solution is to pay full fare to avoid arguments.

stuff regulations. .ask someone to move the or shopping bags or close their legs I doubt their balls are so big they need acres of space to keep their knees apart. my kids cab have my seat. I'll stand. I have over a hundred pounds worth of tickets on me at all times. I'll take half a seat for my 4 yr old thanks

Oh I pay for dd 1 too.

Yanbu. Yes of course stand for those who need it.

I wouldn't encourage a child under 5 to be standing on a packed bus either. I might have given up my seat for him if on my own.

Over 5s maybe should be quick to give up their seats for someone who needs it, but not just for any adult.

Hi Mythical, that wasn't the regulation for the bus.
It was transport for london, so I think it's free up to 16 or 18.
He wasn't sitting in the front priority seats, but even those have a sign saying 'Priority seating. Please give up your seat for those less able to stand' or something like that.
It has stick people pictures of elderly person with walking stick, pregnant woman and mum and small child.
As far as the trains with tables go, how do you know they haven't got a ticket for dc?
I know if you don't get them a ticket they have to sit on your lap, but a child rate ticket booked in advance entitles them to a seat. (I know this because my mum took ds to visit relatives on a 5 1/2 hour train journey. She didn't want to have him on her lap the whole time, so she bought a ticket. A man complained and called over conductor, but my mum just produced ticket and conductor told man ds had reserved seat, and he didn't)
So you can't always tell in those situations

Hi Rocket,

I was just suggesting a solution which may work around here. If there are no specified rules then that's different, although good manners would probably dictate an that an older child travelling at reduced fare or free should stand on short journeys for someone paying full fare.

I also used to reserve seats for my DCs when travelling by train for any distance. It makes sense.

I just don't understand why small children are deemed less important than someone's shopping or hand bag.

We never hear of a thread where someone asked someone else to move their bag.or shift their arse over to the window seat It's always about a small child not being moved even when the mum is standing.

No one has said that, Giles.

Not directly. but clearly "regulations" mean that people feel free to ask children out of principle rather than address others who would more safely be able to stand, or stand themselves, or ask for bags to be moved.

I don't understand why.

I get buses regularly. seat upon seat is taken up with people sitting the aisle side with their bags on the window seat and head down on phones or whatever.

yet people get on and glare at people with a child on a seat.

Officer, wasn't there a bit of a hoo ha a few years ago about an airline charging overweight people for two seats or something? Or have I just made that up?
Mythical, Can see what you're saying if that's what it says on the bus, but equally could it not be argued if mum is standing, the child is sitting in her paid for seat, and mum would be sitting there otherwise?
And yes re trains. An extra few quid for the extra comfort every time!

I wouldn't move my 4 year old she's so unstable on her feet if she cam sit on.my knee I will but I she deserves to sit

I have noticed that Giles, people are more likely to expect a child to move, than ask somebody to move their bags.

Which is why I agree with the statement that they are nothing more than a bully.

or they'd have the guts to ask any one of the does of other people on the bus.

If they genuinely believe they deserve a seat more than someone else. ask that 15 yr old on her iPhone. ask the business man to move his brief case.

don't pick on the one person who could get hurt.

(talking about able adults here. )

Hi TooHasty, that was my fear at the time to be fair. That an overweight middleaged man or woman would lose their balance and land on him.
I had visions of broken bones and all sorts!

dozens

This comes up regularly on MN. I get the whole "child too delicate to stand in case they fall" argument, but younger people don't seem to realise that in the Olden Days of the 1960s and 1970s when I was a child it was a given that children gave way to adults in all things.

In the last half century this has completely swung around so that now adults (seem to) have to give way to children at all times. So those of us middle aged persons have missed out all ways. Adults ruled when we were kids, and now we are adults children get priority.

I only know this from being on MN, so if you were someone with no children, or older children how would you know? Presumably the woman on the bus had been made to stand for adults her whole childhood, only to find that now she is an adult, and really needs to sit down, there is a small child taking up a seat. Just a thought?

I think a child shouldn't have to give up their seat for a healthy adult, and I also think that if there was a pregnant woman/elderly woman/someone with a mobility issue, an able bodied adult near by should give up their seat instead of the child.

Oh cone on in

it's perfectly possible for a child to have learnt to wait turns and open doors and allow adults to go first etc without being left to struggle on a bus and get hit in the face with a back pack.