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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to risk asking for thoughts on this?

204 replies

Givesyouhell · 30/01/2015 07:38

I am very nervous asking this on here - I was mulling this over and really couldn't quite work out where I stood on it so thought I'd throw it out there...

If a woman gets pregnant (let's assume protection fails) and she doesn't want or feel ready for kids she can choose to have an abortion. The man is rightly expected to understand and support this. End of story.

If a woman gets pregnant accidently (assuming protection fails) the man would often be thought a bastard for saying he did not want the pregnancy to continue or for then denying the existence of the child if it were born. He would also be expected to provide for the child that he did not want/feel ready for.

I'm not asking this question from the 'woman's body is her own' position, more the long term life changes that a child brings.

This isn't a situation relevant to me, just something that came up in discussion. It seems pretty unfair to the man to me, in that he has no choices at all in something that will change his life and finances for decades and maybe his own view of himself if he steps away.

Please don't flame me for posting, I'm posting to get other people's views and to see if I need to revaluate mine!

OP posts:
Sockswithkitesandspots · 30/01/2015 09:20

"Add message | Report | Message poster SoupDragon Fri 30-Jan-15 09:18:34
poor menz

Shame you can't refrain from using derogatory terms when trying to construct an argument. All this "menz" crap is stupid."

Lol, slightly ironic to complain about a "derogatory" post by being derogatory yourself. Smile

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 30/01/2015 09:21

When a woman becomes pregnant unexpectedly or accidentally it is her body it is happening to - whatever she decides, whether to go ahead with the pregnancy, or terminate, it will have an impact on her body - not the man's.

Either way, for her it's a life changing decision - have the baby or the termination. Yes, she get's the choices here - but she doesn't have the option of what she probably really wants - which is not to be pregnant in the first place, not to have to make that decision.

Hakluyt · 30/01/2015 09:21

So. There is a serious suggestion that men should be able to force women to carry and give birth to babies they don't want. Will the man then take and raise that child himself, or will the woman be forced to do that as well?

And telling our children only to have sex with people you want to spend the rest of your life with? Good luck with that one! Worked incredibly well over the years, hasn't it?

Eltonjohnsflorist · 30/01/2015 09:21

Lemissscared I used to work with a woman who had a child at 17 who lived with its father and she had no contact with. I don't know anymore about how the arrangement came about though

lemisscared · 30/01/2015 09:22

Actually, in all of this debate, i forgot my own situation. I was a single mother at 19, my DD1's father chose to have nothing to do with her and never has (she is 24 now - oh, im so ollllllddd) so has never paid a penny. I remember not persuing him for maintenance because i was worried i would be left with no money as he would have been erratic with payments and also, i didn't want him to think he could just swan back in and mess my DD around. For me, it was by far the best decision as he has never been involved with DD so it really is a case of what you don't have, you don't miss. But thinking on it, he should have paid.

bumbleymummy · 30/01/2015 09:23

I know where you're coming from OP. I have sons and it worries me. One of my friend's boys' gf had an abortion and he was in bits about it. It has a psychological impact on them too.

NancyRaygun · 30/01/2015 09:24

No abortion doesn't leave all women in an emotional wreck - sometimes its an absolute relief and the best decision all round. Its still the woman's decision. She doesn't need permission, or approval and certainly not consent from anyone apart from the medics assisting her with the procedure.

It doesn't really matter whether the woman is facing trauma having a termination or whether abortion is just a blip in her day - the man has no say.

It doesn't matter whether the condom split or just being idiots about contraception. Or even a planned pregnancy, or even an IVF pregnancy. Its still her decision.

This is like "good aids" and "bad aids"! There is no awww poor things scenario, the reality is pregnant, or not pregnant. When it comes to women's reproductive rights there can't be hand wringing about individual circumstances or we go backwards, just a decision that woman has to deal with. Alone.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE · 30/01/2015 09:24

As far as I am concerned, the decision should be made by the person who's body it affects. In this case, the woman.

Hakluyt · 30/01/2015 09:26

I "know where you're coming from OP. I have sons and it worries me. One of my friend's boys' gf had an abortion and he was in bits about it. It has a psychological impact on them too."

Did he use contraception? Properly? Did he check with the woman that she was?

GnocchiGnocchiWhosThere · 30/01/2015 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bumbleymummy · 30/01/2015 09:27

This confuses me bit in relation to equality issues.

Hakluyt · 30/01/2015 09:27

Would he have been prepared to take full responsibility for the baby had it been born for the next 18 years?

Goldmandra · 30/01/2015 09:29

One of my friend's boys' gf had an abortion and he was in bits about it. It has a psychological impact on them too.

Nobody is arguing that it doesn't.

He chose to take that risk when he has intercourse and he has to live with the consequences of that decision however unpleasant he may find them.

The woman gets to make her decision later on because the results are happening in her body. That's life.

Stealthpolarbear · 30/01/2015 09:29

Between if that was at me then I agree. I realise there are plenty of women for whom an abortion is straightforward (realise I may be contradicting myslf). But it cannot e assumed that all women will find it this way.
Life isn't fair. Yet it seems to me that its accepted life will be unfair to women. But when life is unfair to men, women are expected to step in andmake it fairer

MythicalKings · 30/01/2015 09:29

It absolutely should be a woman's decision whether to continue with a pregnancy in the circumstances the OP describes.

I thought what she was asking was whether a reluctant father should have to pay.

GnocchiGnocchiWhosThere · 30/01/2015 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lemisscared · 30/01/2015 09:31

Hakluyt, i would never suggest that for one minute, but it is an outcome and a solution to an unwanted pregnancy, if the woman is able to give the baby up. Babies are given up for adoption by strangers for lots of reasons, so it is no different in a way.

Sockswithkitesandspots · 30/01/2015 09:31

To the professionally offended on this thread (re poor menz etc.) may I point out that none of my posts are derogatory with regards to men at all. I respect men and women alike, my brother has two sons which he had no choice over having. I believe I understand the complexities of anyone involved in a scenario of an unplanned pregnancy, at least to a point. I used the expression "poor menz" (which I don't find a particularly sophisticated expression, it was used ironically btw) only because several posters here talk about "unfair" wrt unplanned pregnancies. I will say it again the psycho-social consequences of having an unplanned pregnancy (either carried out or aborted) exist for both men and women. However women must preserve their right to choose any which way they want as it is indeed their body where the pregnancy takes place. I think wanting to tie women to the men they have had sex with but who is not a good partner for them (or they for the man) forces people into potentially abusive situations. Women have fought long and hard to have the right for abortion on their terms ( more or less). In other countries men decide whether a women can have an abortion or not resulting I n terrible health outcomes for the mother and her existing children.

I think in a unwanted pregnancy situation, both, the woman and the man are "poor" because they have to deal with a life changing decision and live with the consequences.

bumbleymummy · 30/01/2015 09:31

Yes Hakluyt. They were using contraception. She was initially pleased about the pregnancy and they made plans etc. and then she changed her mind. My friend was so upset as well. They would never have interfered with her decision so she just had to help him through it as best she could. She said that he still gets really down around the due date.

lemisscared · 30/01/2015 09:34

wtaf is "menz"?

Hakluyt · 30/01/2015 09:34

"
"This confuses me bit in relation to equality issues."

In what way?

TheRealAmandaClarke · 30/01/2015 09:34

Agree with stealthpolarbear

Really bumble? How so?

Goldmandra · 30/01/2015 09:34

Would he have been prepared to take full responsibility for the baby had it been born for the next 18 years?

That isn't relevant.

bumbleymummy · 30/01/2015 09:35

"the woman and the man are "poor" because they have to deal with a life changing decision and live with the consequences."

Completely but it seems like there is a problem with men feeling 'poor' about it. As if they're not entitled to feelings about the pregnancy at all.

lemisscared · 30/01/2015 09:38

I think men are absolutely entitled to feelings about the pregnancy, are we saying then that the partner of a woman who sadly miscarries does not greive?

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