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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to risk asking for thoughts on this?

204 replies

Givesyouhell · 30/01/2015 07:38

I am very nervous asking this on here - I was mulling this over and really couldn't quite work out where I stood on it so thought I'd throw it out there...

If a woman gets pregnant (let's assume protection fails) and she doesn't want or feel ready for kids she can choose to have an abortion. The man is rightly expected to understand and support this. End of story.

If a woman gets pregnant accidently (assuming protection fails) the man would often be thought a bastard for saying he did not want the pregnancy to continue or for then denying the existence of the child if it were born. He would also be expected to provide for the child that he did not want/feel ready for.

I'm not asking this question from the 'woman's body is her own' position, more the long term life changes that a child brings.

This isn't a situation relevant to me, just something that came up in discussion. It seems pretty unfair to the man to me, in that he has no choices at all in something that will change his life and finances for decades and maybe his own view of himself if he steps away.

Please don't flame me for posting, I'm posting to get other people's views and to see if I need to revaluate mine!

OP posts:
muminhants · 30/01/2015 08:29

Sad but tough. You can't force a woman to carry an unwanted child for nine months. That's the bottom line for me.

Hakluyt · 30/01/2015 08:30

SnowWhite- if a political party was "brave enough" what are you suggesting they would do about it?

GnomeDePlume · 30/01/2015 08:31

The thing is that there isnt a compromise in this situation. To this effect we have made very clear to our DS(16) that once he ejaculates his right to a say in what happens next is over. And yes, we have been this clear.

As a PP said sex is a big deal. You have to remember that the primary purpose of sex is to make babies. Not making babies is an artificial situation. This isnt a moral standpoint just practical.

Eltonjohnsflorist · 30/01/2015 08:33

It's unfortunate for him, but it's life isn't it? We all can find ourselves in situations where our lives are compramised through bad luck. It's just the way life goes.

There isn't a solution- he can't have a say over the woman's body so can't stop the pregnancy, and he is obliged to support the child as it's his. There is no other way, is there?

SnowWhiteAteTheApple · 30/01/2015 08:36

Hakluyt, I don't know. It would be great if abortions needed both parents to agree, it's very unfair a mother can chose to abort a baby the father wants and would be willing to have full sole care for. Both made the baby but at present only one gets to decide on the outcome.

Goldmandra · 30/01/2015 08:37

You have sex and create a child. You made the choice to take that risk.

If the mothers chooses to go ahead with the pregnancy you live up to your responsibilities.

If the mother chooses to terminate a pregnancy you wanted, you have to accept that because the alternative is too awful to contemplate. That is a shit situation and you have every right to support while grieving the child you have lost but again, you chose to have sex with someone who didn't want a baby.

Actions have consequences. If you don't want to be in that position, you abstain.

Thisishowyoudisappear · 30/01/2015 08:39

SnowWhite, really??? So I want an abortion and my DH doesn't want me to? He can force me to continue with the pregnancy? Then potentially walk away? Have you actually thought about this?

PolkaDotsandPumpkin · 30/01/2015 08:40

I think ultimately it's the woman's choice as it is her life and body that will irrevocably change. Even the most involved and into it father does not have to make the changes and sacrifices the woman has to.

Even in the case of carrying the baby to term, giving birth and handing it over to the father has such an impact on a woman's body. No one else should be able to force a woman to do that.

Bowlersarm · 30/01/2015 08:41

I see your point, but there's no easy answer.

I like Clash mums comment about not shagging someone you wouldn't want to be involved with for the rest of your life. I shall store that one up for my DSes.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 30/01/2015 08:42

Ye, we need a political party that will bring in a law whereby a man can force a woman to have a termination of pregnancy, or to force her not to.
That would be progress. And much more fair than developing a working knowledge of reproductive biology and/or medical consent.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 30/01/2015 08:43

I too agree with Clash's mum.

Eltonjohnsflorist · 30/01/2015 08:44

snowwhite "it would be great if abortions needed both parents to agree"

Great? This would be one of the worst things to happen in my lifetime. What a terrible backwards step for women and equality, and having autonomy over ones own body. I'm saddened that anyone can think that would be great.

PtolemysNeedle · 30/01/2015 08:46

I agree it's unfair.

There is an 'unfairness' in the biology of it, but we can't change that and the negatives of being the gender that carries the babies is far outweighed by the positives IMO.

Because we live in a society that will provide lone mothers with enough money to raise their children whether or not they work or can afford it, and because we live in a society that values a woman's right to choose, I think we can afford to give men some choice here too.

It's wrong that a man can be expected to pay for a child he didn't even know existed until after it's been born. I'd be in favour of some kind of system where if a woman wants to claim through the CSA, she has to be able to show that the man knew about the pregnancy before 24 weeks. Before 24 weeks, a man should be able to legally opt out of financial responsibility for a child.

That would prevent men changing their minds and deciding they want nothing to do with a child after it's born, but it would also give men the same option that women currently have over their future financial obligation. We can't do anything about the fact that the physical responsibility is on the woman, but we can do something to make the financial obligation equal.

sisterelephant · 30/01/2015 08:47

snowhite I totally disagree with you. It is the woman's body after all so ultimately here decision. As a PP said once the man has sex unprotected he needs to deal with the consequences.

What happens in situations where the woman has been raped and needs an abortion?

SnowWhiteAteTheApple · 30/01/2015 08:48

I didn't say men should be able to force a termination but if they want the child and the women doesn't they should have the same parental rights of choice as the women. It must be awful to know that somebody has the right to end your babies life rather than you have the chance to take on sole custody. We bleat about wanting equal rights but only when it's benefits women apparently.

Telling boys to not sleep with somebody they don't want a tie too works the other way too. Too many women see the partner as nothing more than a sperm donor that suits their needs.

Nothing will change though, so it's just education and hoping parents install their children with good morals and knowledge.

FrackingHell · 30/01/2015 08:52

SnowWhite do you really believe what you're suggesting? You genuinely believe that women should need the permission of a man to make decisions about what goes on in their bodies? To me that is beyond terrifying. I hope it was flippant.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 30/01/2015 08:53

We dont have parental rights, we have responsibilities that are designed to meet the rights of children.

PtolemysNeedle · 30/01/2015 08:53

Why is the right to decide what happens to our bodies so much more important than the right to decide what happens to our own finances?

TheRealAmandaClarke · 30/01/2015 08:55

Is it half term already?
Or have the misogynists returned?

GnocchiGnocchiWhosThere · 30/01/2015 08:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eltonjohnsflorist · 30/01/2015 08:55

Snowwhite you're saying a man should be able to STOP an abortion. That's no different to forcing one. It's barbaric

SoupDragon · 30/01/2015 08:57

I didn't say men should be able to force a termination but if they want the child and the women doesn't they should have the same parental rights of choice as the women

And when they are able to go through the physically damaging and potentially life threatening physical ordeal or pregnancy and birth then they can have those rights.

Until then, it will remain an unfair scenario that can't be changed.

FrackingHell · 30/01/2015 08:58

x post. Apparently you are serious SnowWhite.

So if my husband wants another kid and I don't, and I'm unlucky enough to suffer contraceptive failure (it does happen), then I'll just have to suck up pregnancy, labour and everything that entails. But as long as he doesn't feel his sperm is going to waste, that's equality. That'll show those bloody feminists won't it? Good to know.

SoupDragon · 30/01/2015 08:58

the physically damaging and potentially life threatening physical ordeal of pregnancy and birth

Goldmandra · 30/01/2015 08:58

It must be awful to know that somebody has the right to end your babies life rather than you have the chance to take on sole custody.

Yes, it must. I can't imagine how hard that is because I have never lost a child but the man chose to risk being in this position when he had intercourse. That was the point at which he held the same power and control as the woman.

Once the child has been conceived, his no longer gets a say because the alternative would be to enable him to force the woman to go through pregnancy and birth against her wishes.

I hate abortion because I see it as the killing a child at whatever stage of pregnancy it happens but that's my problem to deal with. I would never, ever support the idea of a father being allowed to force a woman to carry his child.