to not want your child to cuddle mine after just hurting them?

[RocketInMyPocket]

I have a really good friend, she's lovely to be around, but when it comes to the kids some things give me the rage.
Her dd is 6 months older than mine, and can sometimes be a bit spiteful (snatching pushing smacking) . My dd will be 4 in August, hers 4 in Feb.
I have taught my kids from an early age that any violent behaviour is simply not acceptable, and they don't hit snatch pinch etc.
So her dd smacked mine over a toy. My dd was crying, saying 'Mummy, x smacked me', her dd lied and said she didn't even though we saw her. When I said, X, I saw you do it, she proceeded to scream bloody murder.
My friend picked her daughter up, said ok calm down, give Rockets dd a cuddle and say sorry. She was screaming, shaking her head no, lashing out with arms and legs.
The say sorry part was quickly dropped, and was just turned into give a cuddle.
At that point she tried to cuddle my dd, (who had stopped crying by now, but was still sniffling on my lap), and my dd immediately started crying again as soon as she came near her.
Friend said oh she's trying to be nice to you and give you a cuddle to say sorry. And pulled at sad face at my dd. I said something along the lines of, sorry dd only cuddles people who are nice to her, not people who hit her and make her cry.
Friend kind of gave me an odd look, put her dd down and said, oh well she doesn't want a cuddle.
I was just so fucked off that she put the onus on MY dd, pulling sad faces etc when she hadn't even mentioned her dds hitting, lying and then thrashing and screaming apart from saying basically go and upset the girl you've just walloped by making her cuddle you when she quite frankly doesn't want you near her.
Friend left soon after.
What would you have done? I enjoy my friends company obviously, but don't really want her dd near my two, as it's not an isolated incident, and my 2 get a bit confused when she behaves badly, and nothing is done, when they would obviously be punished.
Sorry for such long winded post, but I hope you understand what I'm saying!

Essentially I'm wrong for telling her dd something pretty straightforward (people don't want to cuddle you if you hit them) but then saying my kids 'have to learn to deal with it' is ok?
How about her dd 'having to deal' with the fact you don't hit?
Am baffled by the logic here tbh

And I'm pretty sure that the local academy (secondary) has 'age adjusted' results. This is one of top schools in country. Someone else said something to do with age adjusting for 11 plus? It clearly makes a difference. (I don't think the ages are particularly relevant in my situation, but to say there's no difference between a 3.5 and 3.11 year olds in general is ridiculous)

Actually Rocket I think if you'd put it the way you did in the post above it would have been okay. 'You can't have a cuddle because dd is still upset that you hit her'. It was the way you put it which was at fault, it wasn't just a statement of fact, it was petulant and PA.

I get where you are coming from. But I think I would have said to the mum "It is unreasonable to expect dd to accept a cuddle from a child who is thrashing about in anger and clearly not sorry. "

If I was really annoyed at mums inefficient parenting, I might add a "Maybe we can help your dd learn not to hit her friends by making a rule that if you hit and cant behave, you must go home, and stick to it?"

(But that would make me sound really arsey)

As I've said, I understand it could have been worded better, but surely the tone of voice is what's most important?
It wasn't said in a diggy way, just pretty straightforward, whereas if I said she doesn't cuddle people who hit her in a sarky way, then that's obviously wrong, and I wouldn't say that to a 3-4 year old.
I just think surely it's the tone/intent behind the way you say it, not what you actually say?
But I have learned a lesson, I need to think about the way I word things, but other than that I don't think I'd do anything different.

Quintless that is even worse than what the OP said in the first place! There's nothing wrong with making a statement of fact that the daughter doesn't want to cuddle as she is still upset and frightened at being hit. But the way it was phrased was loaded with nastiness and an undertone that the other child was not good enough for her daughter.

A child who has done something wrong needs to know it's wrong and that it's had an effect on other people. But they don't need to be made to feel there is something inherently wrong with them. I think the problem is what the OP said was not just 'You did something bad so because of that action she will not cuddle you right now', it was loaded with the inference 'You are bad and she will not cuddle you ever'. Make a child feel bad for their actions, not for who they are.

This is where I'm confused moan, because this child is clearly seen to be able enough to 'infer' a meaning out of that, but at the same time not able enough to understand that you shouldn't hit?

I don't think it's at all acceptable to let your kid "off" for hitting another child, lying about it, then refusing to apologise and screaming bloody murder.

Isn't that what parents are for? To teach boundaries?

If your just going to sweep it under the carpet, then you can expect other parents to get pissy with you.

If the other woman doesn't like it, well fuck her really.

There is "parenting differently" and there is "accepting consequences of letting your child act like a dick"

OP you asked how I deal with my friend and her (non)approach to discipline.

TBH I avoid playdates that involve her children and I see her on her own when I can. I enjoy her company, but I don't enjoy dealing with the fallout when she fails to (in my eyes) discipline her children in an appropriate way. She also does forced apologies, that mean absolutely nothing to either child. When we are together in a group situation with children, I tend to keep a very close eye on her children and I do step in if they are getting out of control. I've talked with her about it, and she has asked my advice on discipline, and she is okay with me taking action to keep our children safe. She is clearly struggling with it - she smacks them from time to time out of frustration because the other things that she does aren't working. So I talk to her about it when I can, without preaching.

Mrs D, She is 3.11 and the OP's child is 6 months younger NOT just turned 3, this point is being exaggerated for effect. Even if the child was 4, your expectations are still lofty and if you work with children this age, you should know that because their language can be so fluent, adults often assume the understanding is comparable but in fact it is not. For instance, they will say things like, 'you are not my friend' but that doesn't mean they are never going to speak to that child again. They'll ask 'why?' A lot but that doesn't mean they are necessary looking for a explanation, as they wont understand the answer to a lot of the 'whys' they ask, it is more likely your attention they want. Children by nature are forgiving at this age and it is a good job, as preschool, nursery life, playgroup etc. would come to a stand still, if every child was to dwell on every disagreement- the adults in their life would spend all their time sorting these trivial things out.

Most development literature at this age talks of 3-4 year olds, preschoolers, it doesn't often distinguish between a few months. That is for a reason - because the differences are not huge! It is 6 months!

Most imortantly, if you work in childcare or know anything about it you would know that children develop at different rates. For all we know the 3.11 month old could be less physically advanced, not as emotionally developed as the younger 3 year old. My 3 and 9 month old is quite shy and emotionally not as developed as her brother at this age or even her younger friend. However, she is physically very able, very athletic much more so than her brother at the same age. I am just glad they don't have this arbitrary approach to child development at my 3 year old's preschool!

PlumpingUpPartridge, I have a summer born DS who is in year 3 now but in Reception he was the second youngest in his class, of course they take it into account but you shouldn't worry on this account only, as having a summer born child does not equate to 'certain' problems. It is down to the individual child- I have more worries about my 3 year old who will be 4 and 5 months when she starts school as she is shy.

I don't live in a Grammar system county so I wasn't aware of that advantage but again if you are referring to the difference between summer born and Autumn born children then that can sometimes be a difference of almost a year not 6 months as in your scenario?

And what exactly makes this worse than what the op said "It is unreasonable to expect dd to accept a cuddle from a child who is thrashing about in anger and clearly not sorry. "?