to not want your child to cuddle mine after just hurting them?

[RocketInMyPocket]

I have a really good friend, she's lovely to be around, but when it comes to the kids some things give me the rage.
Her dd is 6 months older than mine, and can sometimes be a bit spiteful (snatching pushing smacking) . My dd will be 4 in August, hers 4 in Feb.
I have taught my kids from an early age that any violent behaviour is simply not acceptable, and they don't hit snatch pinch etc.
So her dd smacked mine over a toy. My dd was crying, saying 'Mummy, x smacked me', her dd lied and said she didn't even though we saw her. When I said, X, I saw you do it, she proceeded to scream bloody murder.
My friend picked her daughter up, said ok calm down, give Rockets dd a cuddle and say sorry. She was screaming, shaking her head no, lashing out with arms and legs.
The say sorry part was quickly dropped, and was just turned into give a cuddle.
At that point she tried to cuddle my dd, (who had stopped crying by now, but was still sniffling on my lap), and my dd immediately started crying again as soon as she came near her.
Friend said oh she's trying to be nice to you and give you a cuddle to say sorry. And pulled at sad face at my dd. I said something along the lines of, sorry dd only cuddles people who are nice to her, not people who hit her and make her cry.
Friend kind of gave me an odd look, put her dd down and said, oh well she doesn't want a cuddle.
I was just so fucked off that she put the onus on MY dd, pulling sad faces etc when she hadn't even mentioned her dds hitting, lying and then thrashing and screaming apart from saying basically go and upset the girl you've just walloped by making her cuddle you when she quite frankly doesn't want you near her.
Friend left soon after.
What would you have done? I enjoy my friends company obviously, but don't really want her dd near my two, as it's not an isolated incident, and my 2 get a bit confused when she behaves badly, and nothing is done, when they would obviously be punished.
Sorry for such long winded post, but I hope you understand what I'm saying!

This child will be starting school in less than two terms. Boy is she going to get a shock if she thinks it's OK to go around wacking other kids!

Friends child was encouraged to apologise and hug and make up. And you encouraged your Dd to throw it back in her face. Good luck for the future.

but the friend's child was quite obviously NOT sorry in the slightest

I also think you need to bully your children.I always used to tell my DC to hit back twice as hard! Unfortunately only 1 out of the 4 followed this advice!

I don't think there is a huge difference developmentally between the 2 kids described.

I think there can be a huge difference between a 36 month old and a 48 month old as Mrs d put it. This child is closer to 48 months and therefore should know about hitting, apologies and consequences.

You are for all intents and purposes talking about a 4 year old and a 3.5 year old.

Just as Ds at 22 months is far more like a 2 year old than a 1 year old.

And 6 months is not nothing at 3. It's a 6th of their life. That's huge.

But doesn't empathy come much later for most? Are any of them genuinely sorry they have hurt someone else? Can they really see it from the other person's perspective at age 3/4?

Mine definitely couldn't but I can't speak for all.

Bullyproof not bully!

My kids have been on the receiving end of lots of hitting OP. I've tried being nice about it but that doesn't work.

The last time a particular child kept going for my son, I briefed him to hit back as hard as he could. The boy has never laid a finger on him since.

YADNBU. Also the comment about not wanting to cuddle people that hurt them well you're just speaking the truth and in a way that the child should be able to understand.

Oh god
I used to HATE the cuddle thing. Why do some parents do it?

I remember one of my children getting bitten by some rampaging tot and the mother of jaws encouraging her offspring to cuddle my child to say 'sorry.'

There is nothing a child who has just been mauled wants less than a 'cuddle' from the kid who has just bitten/thumped them.

The best thing a parent of a child who has just hit another cAn do is make as much fuss of the victim as possible and ignore their own child.

Goldenbear, I really don't understand your point in the slightest. I have a son in year 1, and if I found out that he was being hit in school, by the same child and the schools method of dealing with it was ineffective, I would be down there fucking livid, and demanding they put some kind of strategy/plan into place.
I wouldn't give a flying fuck about the other childs development, or month of birth, or stature?
I'm not expecting too much of a 3 year old either, but I'm obviously expecting too much from her 29 year old mother, by expecting her to tell her 47 month old child that hitting is wrong

there is some nonsense on this thread.

No child should be expected to or taught to accept any physical touch they are uncomfortable with.

You teach a child not to hit from us young as they are able to hit. It's a hell of a lot easier at 2 than 8 if you have to physically remove a child.

You say sorry or you are removed from the situation. You do it again you apologise but you are still going home. It works... in most cases... eventually. .. even for ds who was non verbal with special needs. At three to four He went home or sat outside a lot. Usually it wasn't his fault he hit (often it was the other parents fault for failing to teach sharing ir deal with snideness), however it became his fault as soon as he Behaved in a physically inappropriate manner.

Eventually I was able to teach the communication skills to prevent it happening. Shame on all the parents who think "it's normal" so don't bother trying

It is expected that a child of 22-36 months can inhibit their own actions and behaviours and that a child of 30-50 months is aware of their own feelings and knows that actions can hurt others.

There are always going to be children at either end of this spectrum, and those that take longer to get there than others, but both parents and nursery/school settings have a responsibility to encourage and expect appropriate behaviour.

Is it really the norm to encourage children to cuddle each other? I hated that kind of space invading behaviour as a child, still do. I'd be backing away from anyone that tried to make my children be hugged against their will.

Anyway, I have a friend a bit like yours op, she's a lovely person but her kids are wild and she has the most ineffectual approach to discipline, it drives me nuts. Once, her youngest took a toy off mine, hit him with it then pushed him over. Her response 'we don't do that sweetie, now give him a hug to say sorry' . Then was surprised when I said my son probably didn't want a hug from her son, having just been bashed by him.

So op I don't think YABU at all.

Thanks justwondering, at least I know it's not just me. What do you do btw, see her more on her own, see her with the kids, cut down on seeing her etc?
As I said she's normally lovely, but it's starting to really fuck me off.

TooHasty Also I think your DD was milking it for all she was worth!!

Sorry, you should have said you were there at the time!

Oh you weren't? ...so, actually, you have absolutely no idea how hurt the op's DD was? Also, it wasn't the op's throwing a tantrum because she had been told she was seen hitting the OP's DD

Sorry,I meant to add YANBU, a verbal apology would have been more appropriate, which she should be more than capable of if turning 4 in a few weeks.
And a harsh consequence.

I have zero tolerance for any sort of violent behaviour in children of that age (NT of course) she's nearly 4 not 2 fgs!

Sorry your DD had to put up with this Op.

I don't understand the relevance of talking about a 36 month old and a 48 month old - that is 'not' the difference in this case. My 3 year old is at preschool with children ranging from 2.5 to 4.5 - a majority of them are 3. My DD has not found settling into preschool that easy, so I have been staying up to an 1.5 hrs every morning to help her get comfortable with me leaving. In this time I have been able to observe the children- there's only ever about 15 of them at one session, you can 'definitely' not tell the difference between the three year olds' behaviour, let alone a range of 6 months. It is only really obvious when the child is either really young, so the 2 year olds or really old, the 4 and a few month olds.

My point is that your friend is dealing with it age appropriately. I don't mean the hug but your response as an 'adult' to a three year old appears childish and you're justifying it on the grounds of this girl being 6 months older. She is still a young child even if she is older than yours.

Year one is 5/6, so yes they should know better about right/wrong, not the same at all. IME, schools don't tend to take sides and just expect children to get on with it and not be petty. Some parents just get overly involved with their child's disputes, taking every slight against their child as a personal attack on themselves. When your child does start reception, the 6 months difference will be irrelevant after the first couple of weeks- state schools haven't got the time or resources to care. I know as I have a summer born. When it comes to 4 year olds arguments or even a hit, they will either not notice, overlook it or discipline them in some way but will definitely expect the wronged child to accept an apology. When my DS started reception he got a cut lip on the second day from a boy pushing him in the playground, it was so bad he couldn't eat easily for a week. The boy was made to apologise to DS and the teacher said to me, 'children will be children'. This is an 'outstanding' infants school. This has been the prevalent attitude of the school every since.

The friend did not behave appropriately. The sorry is not open to negotiation. If nothing else it should have come from the mum "I'm sorry you are hurt and dd hasn't apologised". But there really was no reason why the friends dd couldn't/shouldn't have apologised

Again, don't understand the relevance of your point?!? I mentioned their ages, and that there's 6 month age gap once in my OP?
You mentioned about waiting for them to get to school, which is why I mentioned my son is at school, and what I would do of it happened there, so why are you telling me the ages of year 1 students? My son IS IN year 1, I know how old they are, why are you so obsessed with age ffs!!
And good for the nursery for MAKING them sorry, which is more than dd got.
Also I would accept children will be children when it's a one off, I bet they wouldn't have said that to if it had been a regular occurance?
I thought 3-4 year olds understood perfectly, am starting to doubt that now I see how dismal your comprehension is.....

Mountain. Molehill.

I believe that it is important for all children to know that they don't have to cuddle anyone they don't want to. And it doesn't matter if you look rude - if someone wants a kiss and a cuddle and you don't want to give it to them then you don't.

So I wouldn't give a shiny shite if my daughter has "thrown it back in her face."

I am not bringing my DD up to have to put up with people hitting her and then have to cuddle them afterwards because if she doesn't "they'll be sad" and make her feel guilty.

I don't care if they are three. Any three year old has to learn that if you hit people they don't want to be anywhere near you.

I know how you feel, I've never ever tolerated violent behaviour from my DS and if he ever did hit he was removed from the scene, I'd firmly explain why hitting is not allowed and then tell him he wasnt allowed to play until he apologised to the child he had hurt.

I appeared to be the only parent that reprimanded my child for this behaviour wherever I went, and would get wound up when other children hurt my son but they had nothing said to them.

But like a previous poster mentioned... Everyone parents differently... You can't allow yourself to get too wound up because not everyone follows the same method as you.

Just keep at what you're doing, for what it's worth, my son rarely aattacked another child as he knew he would not get away with it, and now that he is 5 he's very calm and sweet natured and wouldn't dream of ever hurting anyone... Don't get me wrong, that might be w pure coincidence and nothing to do with how I'd always been consistent with his discipline but I like to think so :-)

Fate, so you also have psychic visions about the behaviour of moles then? Fascinating, that gift of yours

I don't think she has a point. She seems unwilling/unable to respond to my actual points, and is just talking about her amazing ability to not be qualified in early years foundation.
I suspect she just wants to tell us her son goes to an 'outstanding' infant school??