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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not want your child to cuddle mine after just hurting them?

187 replies

RocketInMyPocket · 27/01/2015 11:52

I have a really good friend, she's lovely to be around, but when it comes to the kids some things give me the rage.
Her dd is 6 months older than mine, and can sometimes be a bit spiteful (snatching pushing smacking) . My dd will be 4 in August, hers 4 in Feb.
I have taught my kids from an early age that any violent behaviour is simply not acceptable, and they don't hit snatch pinch etc.
So her dd smacked mine over a toy. My dd was crying, saying 'Mummy, x smacked me', her dd lied and said she didn't even though we saw her. When I said, X, I saw you do it, she proceeded to scream bloody murder.
My friend picked her daughter up, said ok calm down, give Rockets dd a cuddle and say sorry. She was screaming, shaking her head no, lashing out with arms and legs.
The say sorry part was quickly dropped, and was just turned into give a cuddle.
At that point she tried to cuddle my dd, (who had stopped crying by now, but was still sniffling on my lap), and my dd immediately started crying again as soon as she came near her.
Friend said oh she's trying to be nice to you and give you a cuddle to say sorry. And pulled at sad face at my dd. I said something along the lines of, sorry dd only cuddles people who are nice to her, not people who hit her and make her cry.
Friend kind of gave me an odd look, put her dd down and said, oh well she doesn't want a cuddle.
I was just so fucked off that she put the onus on MY dd, pulling sad faces etc when she hadn't even mentioned her dds hitting, lying and then thrashing and screaming apart from saying basically go and upset the girl you've just walloped by making her cuddle you when she quite frankly doesn't want you near her.
Friend left soon after.
What would you have done? I enjoy my friends company obviously, but don't really want her dd near my two, as it's not an isolated incident, and my 2 get a bit confused when she behaves badly, and nothing is done, when they would obviously be punished.
Sorry for such long winded post, but I hope you understand what I'm saying!

OP posts:

lambsie · 27/01/2015 13:58

My son did not understand any speech at 3.

FrenchJunebug · 27/01/2015 14:01

you don't suddenly reach a certain level of understanding the day you turn 4!!!! They both are still little.

I would have handle the matter as the other mum. I think the talk about 'how would you feel if somebody hit you' is unnecessary and confusing in a child so youn.

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:05

I think you were right in this instance op.

Only thing I disagree with is that you've maybe allowed this situation to go on this long.

How would friend react if you told her dd off?

MrsDeVere · 27/01/2015 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Goldmandra · 27/01/2015 14:07

My son did not understand any speech at 3.

Sorry, should we all put "typically developing" in front of every comment?

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:07

I'm sorry lamb I dont understand the relevance of what you are saying? The child involved in the scenario clearly does undersatnd speech and therefore can be expected to respond to a telling off.

Equally the mum can be expected to deal with it more effectively.

BitOutOfPractice · 27/01/2015 14:08

One thing I have learned for certain in my years of parenting is that criticising and questioning other people's parenting will only lead to frustration and fallings out

And

Everyone else thinks your parenting is bonkers and there is right. Even though you know that it's the other way round

BarbarianMum · 27/01/2015 14:10

But that's a bit simplistic, isn't it?

A 4 year old can probably understand they'll get told off. They may be able to put themselves in the other child's place and understand it hurts but they are unlikely to be able to calmly rate the other child's feelings against and above their own (in fact they are famous at this age for seeing clearly any injustice shown to them without any insight into their own behaviour). And regardless of what they "know" when they are angry/tired/frustrated/excited they react without thinking.

Original poster

RocketInMyPocket · 27/01/2015 14:11

TooHasty that was how I saw it tbh, I wasn't saying it to be snidey or passive aggressive, just being very direct and not trying to 'dress it up'.
I'm very much the same with my own two tbf.
I have said to dd before for example 'Well,sorry but ds obviously doesn't want to play with you when you don't know how to share' or whatever.
But due to the sheer amount of people saying IBU I'm obviously questioning it now?

OP posts:

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:13

I don't get your point barbarian? It is simplistic, that's the point.

At the point of telling off, I would expect a 3/4 year old to know they had done wrong. It doesn't need to be deeper than that. I would expect an apology.

If child chose to tantrum instead, I'd apologise on their behalf. Tantrum and lack of apology would probably result in us leaving. I wouldn't expect them to cuddle the child they hit without an apology.

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:14

I think it's good that this mum and child learned that

hitting can't always be smoothed over
a cuddle doesn't make it all ok
sometimes hurtful behaviour has lasting consequences

Only1scoop · 27/01/2015 14:15

Yanbu....

I can't stand that push and smack another child and then get Told to hug them.

MrsDeVere · 27/01/2015 14:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BarbarianMum · 27/01/2015 14:17

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. What I was getting at was that, just because a 4 year old has some idea that hitting is wrong, doesn't mean they won't hit (whatever you do).

lambsie · 27/01/2015 14:19

Goldmandra, you persisted in saying that a 3 year old will understand that it is unacceptable behaviour, even after I pointed out that some won't.

FATEdestiny · 27/01/2015 14:19

But due to the sheer amount of people saying IBU I'm obviously questioning it now?

You have backed yourself into a corner by defining one mothers parenting style as "right" (yours) and another mothers parenting style as "wrong" (hers).

Every parent things the way they parent is right.

That does not mean that other ways of parenting are wrong, just different.

RocketInMyPocket - This toy they were fighting over. Could your daughter have been failing to share it and maybe the aggressiveness came from sheer frustration of failure to share and play fairly or nicely?

You don't actually need to answer because I think I am psychic: Anything like that it utterly impossible and your DD would have done nothing whatsoever to provoke a reaction.

Original poster

RocketInMyPocket · 27/01/2015 14:24

At the same time, while I'm questioning myself on the way I phrased it, I am also a bit shocked that so many of you seem to agree with the not explaining why she should say sorry bit.
I mean I understand it might be nigh on impossible to get the sorry out of her (I'm not silly), but to not explain WHY she should be saying sorry as she's apparantly too tiny to understand as many of you seem to be saying?
I'm really interested as to when you WOULD start explaining the reasons to say sorry?
That's all I want really, an acknowledgement of the behaviour beyond a 'say sorry, exaggerated eye roll, what are they like' type thing.

OP posts:

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:25

Oh I know full well some will hit regardless, I'm going through it with my 2 year old who knows its wrong. But poor behaviour from a child IMO can be almost totally made up for with the correct response from the parents.

Goldmandra · 27/01/2015 14:27

Goldmandra, you persisted in saying that a 3 year old will understand that it is unacceptable behaviour, even after I pointed out that some won't.

OK, shall I say it for you?

A typically developing three year old or a child that is functioning at the cognitive level of a three year old is capable of understanding that hitting is not acceptable behaviour if an adult bothers to teach them this.

Is that better?

Does everyone have to qualify all of their comments with this on every MN thread from now on?

We all know that statements regarding what a child can do or understand at a certain age may not apply to those with additional needs. I have two children with additional needs of my own. I don't feel it is necessary to poke my head up whenever someone is discussing what is age appropriate and point of that my children can't do it unless it adds something relevant to the conversation.

Your point clearly isn't relevant to this conversation as the OP would have told us if the child had an additional need that prevented her from understanding the hitting is not acceptable.

Original poster

RocketInMyPocket · 27/01/2015 14:28

Can you use those psychic abilities to tell me whether it was ever explained to X that hitting is wrong then FATE?

OP posts:

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:29

Really? Failing to share now justifies hitting?

I dont share my toys and don't force Ds to share his. I don't expect to be hit.

Op, when Ds hits, I get down to his level and tell him something like

"Don't hit, hitting hurts", "people won't play with you if you hit" at which point he cries. When he has calmed down I ask him to say sorry and make friends (cos he isn't talking yet) which for us is a cuddle, with other kids it's usually a hand stroke. If the other kid recoiled I'd tell him that the other child was still upset. In all instances I'd apologise to other kid and parent.

slithytove · 27/01/2015 14:30

Admittedly he is nearly 2, I wouldn't deal with a rising 4 (great description Mrs d) year old the same.

Innocuoususername · 27/01/2015 14:33

I agree with you OP tgat a child should always be told why what they have done is wrong. Mainly so they understand why there are consequences (though your friend doesn't seem to do these either).

And apologies for thinking earlier you'd labelled the child as not nice, I misread. I still think it was a bit oblique for a child to grasp: "people who are not nice to her, is she talking about me?"
But I don't think you really did anything wrong, apart from (as a pp said) allowing this to go on for so long. It's not fair to make your DCs socialise with this child if this always happens. I'd arrange to meet your friend in the evening without DCs in future.

lambsie · 27/01/2015 14:38

I initially made a general comment. You quoted this in your post and then responded to it as though you didn't believe me. You also accused me of twisting what you had written, which I had not done.

Goldmandra · 27/01/2015 14:44

I'm not sure why you think I didn't believe you. I certainly didn't intend to imply that so I apologise for not making myself clearer

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