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To ask how I can explain to DH why page 3 was wrong?

465 replies

Ifyourawizardwhydouwearglasses · 20/01/2015 23:03

He just thinks it was harmless. 'If you don't like it, don't look.' I'd like to educate him but I can't seem to find the words.

He's intelligent but can't seem to get this one.

OP posts:
JapaneseMargaret · 25/01/2015 18:04

Yes, poor working class girls, can't think to save themselves! And how else are they going to become famous, if there's no page 3?

Hairy-legged, frigid feminists, trying to ruin their fun.

It's all just insult-based, whichever way you look at it.

Tinks42 · 25/01/2015 18:15

Blimey, im working class and I have no idea why on earth this would make a difference?

Im also in some peoples eyes a hairy-legged frigid feminist too.

Grin
alicemalice · 25/01/2015 18:33

Indeed not only do the Sun show themselves up as sexist but classist too. Along the lines of ...

'Working class men like to ogle tits in public - we'll stand up for their rights.

Working class women are thick and downtrodden- why do you want to deny them their golden ticket to fame?'

PhaedraIsMyName · 25/01/2015 20:33

'Working class men like to ogle tits in public

There are a couple of posters on the Feminist forum who have said similar. Apparently it's white van drivers and bacon sandwich eating neanderthals.

SardineQueen · 25/01/2015 21:41

Really? I missed that.

For me it's people on my commute so office workers. I'd prefer it if it were confined to vans as then they aren't sitting next to you.

SardineQueen · 25/01/2015 21:42

I also eat bacon sandwiches.

What's wrong with eating bacon sandwiches?

Who said that then?

BruceTwee · 25/01/2015 21:50

SardineQueen

When you see these morons on public transport do you or anyone else ever call this out so they're aware of their antisocial behaviour?

PhaedraIsMyName · 26/01/2015 01:08

sardine
Page 2 of this thread. Posts from sausage and chocbix

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_posts/2289146-Guest-post-The-Sun-has-shown-how-little-respect-it-has-for-women?pg=2&order=

YonicScrewdriver · 26/01/2015 06:54

Phaedra

That thread is not on the Feminist forum, it's on Guest Posts. IIRC, it was stickied at the top of both Active and FWR initially.

Additionally, as you have said yourself, even if a post is in the Feminist section, doesn't mean the person who posts it is in line with the general consensus on the board.

YonicScrewdriver · 26/01/2015 06:55

Just checked - it's still stickied at the top of Active.

SardineQueen · 26/01/2015 18:51

Bruce

No of course not Grin

We're on public transport in London in the rush hour. Everyone completely ignores each other unless there is a very good reason not to! What would be said anyway? Nothing that I can't think isn't almost certain to end up in an argument which is the last thing anyone needs on the way to work.

It doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to anyway. So I think most people realise it's not on really. I suspect the ones who do it are likely to be making some kind of point (why shouldn't I it's not illegal) and so it's just going to be a row that I'm going to lose and get upset by.

I mean how would it go?

Me: Please could you turn the page that is making me uncomfortable
Him: What?
Me: Please can you turn over
Him: Why?
Me: I don't like it
Him: Why not
Me:..... What do I even say to that? Maybe. I don't think it's appropriate for the train
Him: It's not illegal it's a free country what's your problem
Me:......????

There's no good way for that conversation to go is there.

Women and girls who don't like it tend to sit there feeling embarrassed / angry / upset and looking in the other direction. That's the way it's always been IME.

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2015 15:24

When you see these morons on public transport do you or anyone else ever call this out so they're aware of their antisocial behaviour?

Have you?

As Sardine says, what do you think they're going to say?

The only time I ever confronted one of these creatures on my own behalf - they aren't morons btw, they know exactly what they're doing - was on a 12-hour flight when the man next to me kept finding excuses to get up and shove his crotch in my face on the way past both ways despite my saying: 'Hang on a minute, let me get up to let you past'.

The first time, I thought was an accident, the second time I was peeved that he'd ignored me and pushed past while I was getting up so my face made contact with his groin.

I stewed about it until the third time he tried to push past when I said: 'If you want me to suck your dick, just ask and we can negotiate a price.'

He accused me of being mad and deluded about my level of attractiveness.

Maybe I am but I'm not stupid and he didn't go to the loo again for the next 9 hours.

That's about the only time I've been brave on public transport on my behalf. But it's not the only time I've been harassed or seen it happening to someone else.

A couple of times I've stepped in or seen others do it. The response to women is predictable: 'What? What, me, lady?' which swiftly turns into: 'Mind your own business you lezzer/crazy feminist/dried-up ugly old prune'.

More rarely, I've seen men step in. The response is different: 'Oh, come on mate! I wasn't doing anything.'

I swear there's a FB group out there where they synchronize their responses.

I don't particularly blame men for keeping their heads down. Nobody likes confrontation and you might get it wrong.

I also think men worry that a confrontation with another man might escalate into physical violence.

Between men and women, it's verbal abuse. In public, anyway.

Anyway, when you get past 40 you are generally beneath their attention. Apart from the dried up old prune comments.

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2015 15:27

And it's not 'prune'. It's bitch or cunt.

BruceTwee · 27/01/2015 20:44

limited

No I haven't to be honest but is due to my not travelling on public transport much. I've also not come across anyone reading the Sun in a long time either.

However, I've been thinking about this and also about a few articles/threads I've read recently regarding men needing to call out sexism or be classed as being part of the problem (for not doing more to change attitudes of other men).

Whilst I'm happy to call out sexism in the workplace i.e. Inappropriate comments and actions of colleagues, I've been on the fence about doing anything in public for the aforementioned reasons.

The train scenario is one that I think I should step in with, especially if a 14 year old girl was the recipient. However, I fear that this would have only one outcome i.e. Fisticuffs, and that troubles me. Not only because of the sight of two blokes scrapping on the 7:30am to London Grin but that part of the problem itself is male violence. Thus you could be solving one problem but introducing another.

For sure, if any decent man was witness to serious assault he would step in but as ever there are shades of grey and I'm not sure I would want to say anything to a pervy Sun reader, against my better judgement.

But then that makes me a bad man for ignoring a glaring issue.

This isn't a poor Menz post by the way.

limitedperiodonly · 27/01/2015 23:08

BruceTwee I said most people would be reticent about stepping in and many men would give the reason that you have - escalation.

It's most effective when older women to do it. The best example was a 60-something woman on a busy tube I was on once at about 7pm.

She confronted the 30-something man and told him to stop upsetting the girl who was late teens/early 20s.

He turned to the girl and said: 'Am I bothering you?' He clearly was but the girl was too terrified to say anything and shook her head so he sneered: 'Fuck off, witch' or something like that.

The witch didn't let up. It was: 'Would you speak to your mother like that? Did anyone else hear that? Is no one else going to say anything? You disgusting little man. How dare you. Come and stand by me, girl. Don't let him upset you. He's a worm.'

He berated her nastily. She sent it back. We all stared open-mouthed until the next stop when he scuttled off.

Then she shrugged and went back to her Evening Standard.

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