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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I just need some perspective

481 replies

babynamechange · 11/01/2015 23:25

There's a huge backstory to this...but basically I'm asking the question so Im sure I'm not overreacting before I do anything...
To cut a very long story short I have had concerns about my DS having contact with his father due inappropriate touching and emotional abuse etc. DS is currently being seen by a SW about this. It has been a huge struggle to actually get someone to listen, but someone is now seeing him, although i don't know when he will be spoken to again.

DS has just come in to tell me he wants to tell me something but doesn't want to say it. Anyway he said his dad has been taking photos of him while he's on the toilet (he doesn't normally take photos generally). DS said he really didn't like this. I know he would have been really upset as he doesn't like anyone even in the vicinity when he's doing a poo. He's six.

I know or rather I think I must be asking the blatantly obvious, but is this in any world ok :( x

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 03/02/2015 21:35

You don't know how he was like towards the SW when she spoke to him and what he said to her or made her feel. She sounds very clued up, she probably understands the situation ds is in. I hope she continues to work with him and give him tgat opportunity to open up to her.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/02/2015 21:37

For all you know he might have sent chills up her spine, as he is a thoroughly nasty individual who violated baby and displayed violence and aggression towards her.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 08:05

Keep positive, I am pleased that you have a great SW on board who is on the ball Smile

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 09:17

Thanks aero x

OP posts:
diggerdigsdogs · 04/02/2015 09:37

Baby your threads have stayed with me too.

I so hope your lovely SW can help keep him away from the piece of filth

50ShadesofGreyMatter · 04/02/2015 10:06

Baby I lurked on your previous thread and have often wondered what had happened to you. I am so sorry to hear that your poor boy is still being subjected to this excuse for a human being!

That judge should be struck off it's disgusting that this is still going on. I hope you get the help you need soon, I'll be thinking of you.

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 15:09

Thank you 50Shades and digger x
The SW isn't in today so I'll hopefully find out tomorrow what's going on re contact this weekend.

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 15:20

I hope contact is off forever Flowers

Ohfourfoxache · 04/02/2015 15:57

Holy fuck. Just caught up.

What the bollocks do they mean "it doesn't meet the threshold?" It doesn't make sense.

This has been going on for bloody ages. There have been repeated requests for help, you and your ds have consistently asked for help. No bastard HAS helped up until now.

And now they're saying there is a "threshold"? What, so what you're both going through isn't bad enough to warrant police involvement?

Sorry. Not helpful. Does anyone know if there is a way that an investigation can be forced? Maybe through a complaint to the police or if the SW can work towards insisting on one?

Was it the SW who instigated suspending contact? It does sound as though she has the measure of him.

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 16:08

Ohfourfoxache I don't really understand either. The SW explained a bit more, but I think it was because DS couldn't give enough detail in the interview in terms of exact positions etc. My argument was that if they got his phone then that would be additional evidence, but without meeting the threshold they have no powers to take his phone. A catch 22 but no I still don't really get it. Also he's denying it very strongly and no one thinks DS has made it up so I would have thought that should add weight in itself. And it was decided without consultation with SS.

I think the SW is pretty disappointed too, but that we just have to accept it :(.
Yes it was the SW who instigated suspending contact x

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 04/02/2015 16:23

Police have to have evidence that a crime has been committed, that's what they mean by thresholds. If they don't have that, they can't act. Social care runs on a different evidence base, we use balance of probability rather than beyond reasonable doubt. So if we believe that abuse has taken place that can be sufficient to intervene.
Social services can't go to court and have the contact order changed, but they can advise you to do so and support it via a section 7 report. If they were advising no or supervised contact and had sufficient evidence it would be very unusual for the judge to order it I think.

Ohfourfoxache · 04/02/2015 16:26

Right, well that right there is a positive. The SW initiated the suspension. That's a really good thing - at least it wasn't the police. And if the SW is pretty disappointed too then it isn't going to be the type of thing she'll just let go of - she knows the truth, I just know it, can feel it in my bones.

If the SW is involved in the slightly longer term, it might be that ds feels happier opening up to her in time. That has to be a positive. I'm assuming that as and when more information comes to light that there can be further discussions with the police? He's so thick that he will take this as having "got away with it" - his stupidity WILL trip him up.

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 16:31

Thanks so much for explaining that Ehric, really appreciated. It also ties up with what I've been told by her in terms of it being me who would have to go back to court.
In that case, hopefully she'll have enough to be able to support an application for supervised contact. What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Ohfourfoxache · 04/02/2015 16:33

X posts Ehric

I'm sorry to ask this (I take it from the "we" in your post that you are either in the police force or are connected in some way) - what would constitute evidence that is sufficient to intervene?

I'm just trying to understand how it all works, please don't think I'm trying to be inflammatory. I've just got visions of coppers up and down the country who know that a crime has been committed but their hands are tied and are powerless to do anything Sad

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 16:33

Yes he will certainly feel more entitled and untouchable x

OP posts:
Ohfourfoxache · 04/02/2015 16:34

How quickly does she think it could get back to court, Baby?

Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 17:12

Ehric, can't SS have the contact order reversed or supervised if SS are certain abuse is taking place during contact. If ds discloses more information of the sexual touching, won't that be evidence against contact. Baby if you take it back to court, will you have the vile G,or has she left.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 17:14

Ask SW whether she will suppport the application for supervised contact. If it is supervised contact, you have said in the past, that ex will get bored and not bother. I think because he cannot abuse ds in the open.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 17:14

If it goes back to court, will SW be there to explain to the judge, SS standpoint.

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 17:36

No, from what Ehric has said and what I've been told, it would need to be me who takes it back to court. Then the court, I'm guessing will need a report from SS.
Ohfourfoxache she hasn't said anything about timescales. Not wanting to get my hopes up, but she did say before DS was interviewed that it would probably need to go back to court.. I'll have to see what she says tomorrow x

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 17:58

would you still have the nasty G?

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 04/02/2015 18:16

I'm a social worker.
I can't say I'm very experienced in private law proceedings but they are distinct to care proceedings. They fall under different parts of the children act and as such they are dealt with differently.
Social care can apply under section 31 of the children act, which relates to care proceedings. That is our remit. Contact falls under a different section of the act and relates to private proceedings between family members. Social care cannot apply to make or change orders under that section (I forget which it is) as it is not our remit.
If the contact order was upheld despite SW assessment stating otherwise, I suppose social care could initiate care proceedings (not with a view of removing DS from Baby) if they had sufficient evidence that DS was at risk of significant harm. I honestly don't know how that would work, but it would be possible.
As to whether she would get the same GAL, sadly she might. They may feel that continuity is important and so allocate the same one. However you and the SW together might be able to challenge that, I don't know.

Original poster
babynamechange · 04/02/2015 19:50

Thanks so much Ehric.
When the SW mentioned me having to take it back to court, I told her I'd be really worried about that due to same judge but mainly because of the guardian. She thought that because the guardian was now officially off the case and SS were now involved that she shouldn't be required. I hope that's the case x

OP posts:
Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 20:03

I hope so Baby I really do, as she was the main troublemaker, and a thoroughly nasty piece of work.

Aeroflotgirl · 04/02/2015 20:13

It should be much easier without her. Even better she might have changed jobs Grin