To say that in the light of what has happened in Paris we mustn't give the extremists what they want..?

[AWholeLottaNosy]

I'd like to reproduce an article in The New Statesman which is basically saying that the aims of these attacks is to increase anti Muslim prejudice, increasing attacks on these communities ( as we've already seen in France) and thereby increasing the sense of alienation and hostility towards the West and recruiting more terrorists...?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/charlie-hebdo-attack-really-struggle-over-european-values

And a muslim man helped save the lives of Jews in the Kosher supermarket attack.

Some of Mumsnet this week has read like the comments section of the daily mail
totally agree and I am really shocked. I wonder how many of these people know or are friends with actual muslims irl. Its easy to other and mock an entire group of people when you have no real life experience of them only what you read about them.

Been shocked as well. In fact a brief glance at the DO comments section was more moderate!

Choudary is a bellend but fortunately he doesn't appear to have a great deal of support. Nonetheless he is a dangerous man but at least he's someone extremely well known to the authorities.

He's from Welling so unfortunately he can't be shipped out like his mate was; we're stuck with the fucker but maybe exile him to Gravesend or something along with that twat Russell Brand

BigChoc - The difference is that the cartoonists were murdered for what they did. The Jews were murdered for what they were. The terrorists didn't kill the policeman for being Muslim, they killed him because he was protecting the cartoonists and by proxy free speech. The Jews were just doing their Sabbath shopping but they were targets because they were Jews. It's incredible that in 2015 Jews have to fear for their lives because they are in Jews in Paris again (and Jewish shops are told to close). It's reminiscent of the Nazi era :(.

ghostland - Yes, that is an important difference. Both attacks were horrific, but the one at kosher shop was just racist murder.

Like the 2012 shootings at the Jewish school in Toulouse: The terrorist shot a teacher, then his little sons, aged 3 and 6, as they crawled away. He grabbed an 8-yr-old girl by the hair, so he could shoot her at close range.
Those poor little mites didn't provoke anyone.

Even if we brought in strict EU-wide blasphemy laws (and I don't know about the ECHR wrt this) it would only deal with the minority of the attacks that are against news media, writers or artists.

Agree, ghostland and BigChoc.

What do you mean about bringing in strict blasphemy laws BigChoc? I am totally against any kind of censorship and blasphemy laws would be exactly that. You don't deal with terrorism by giving terrorists what they want, that just encourages more terrorism and sends absolutely the wrong message across. And you certainly don't let terrorists dictate government policy.

We should be doing the opposite. We should be supporting free speech and free expression more than ever. The answer is not capitulation to violence. The West allows free expression, including the right to blaspheme and be offensive. Without such freedoms we would have no discussions, no analysis, no science, no ability to question ideas, just censorship and ignorance. I am totally against censorship of ideas, even if they cause offense.

I don't particularly care that someone was praying on a train, but there's a dispensation that allows not praying while travelling. I think it was Mohammed who said it, but I couldn't swear to that without checking.

I am totally against such laws, too. I'm just replying to those who seem to be saying cartoons shouldn't be allowed that might offend Muslims.

Maybe a solution is for every newspaper to publish the cartoons in sympathy and promise to do so whenever any publication is attacked. Then future terrorists know that an attack won't stop the cartoons or satire, but will just multiply them 100-fold.
Of course, they'll still be attacking other targets.

The issue in my mind is this:
Being completely tolerant to Islam and not challenging any of its views also means bring tolerant to horrendous misonogy and homophobia. A number of the Islamic values are at odds with our society. As are some Christian values but these have been allowed to be challenged and have or are changing.
Because we're told that any negative comment re Islam is 'racist' we are too frightened to say we don't agree with some of its principals.
I also do not believe it is a peaceful religion.

Like others I'd like a link to where it says all Muslims should apologise. It's possible that someone said that, but I'd like to see it with my own eyes.

And do we really still have people saying that opposing Islam is racist? You don't 'turn Arabic' if you convert you know and there are whole Islamic countries that are not Arabic. Buy an atlas.

Back Google what Rupert Murdoch has to say.

I also wish the uk would ban the niqab. Covering faces only allows for divisions in society to further increase and for men to have even more power over woman.
What's wrong with just wearing the head scarf?

SlaggyIsland Your link to 'proof' that lots of attacks on Muslims happened in the wake of the Lee Rigby killing was the the Guardian article which got it's information from TellMama

We now know that TellMama invented most of the so-called attacks.

Do you have any other evidence at all?

SlaggyIsland since your last link turned out not to be very useful how about just saying where you saw people "demanding all muslims apologise"

You are as capable of Goofling as I am. But think it's time for me to bow out of what started as a measured thoughtful thread and leave you lot to enjoy.

So it was made up then. That's what I thought.

Why on earth would I make that up? here's the Murdoch link.

There's a ton, an absolute ton of stuff on Islamophobic attacks. To even try and deny that suggests a bit of an agenda to me.

And here's even a Daily Mail link for you! Since you probably prefer them to the Guardian.

The figures, from the Islamophobia watchdog Tell Mama

So another fake one then.

And anyway I was asking you where you saw people "demanding all muslims apologise".

Rupert Murdoch demanded it. I posted the link above.

Again, here

And now I've got better thinks to do with my time than argue with you. I've seen you on these sorts of threads before mate, and I know your agenda.

I sometimes think it's got fuck all to do with religion or the prophet Mohammed

I just think they are criminals and violent people and this cause ( could have been another one ) happens to appeal to them . I also think I prisons have alot to answer for

I can't even find the word apology or apologise on that page.

I do find him saying "Maybe most Moslems peaceful, but until they recognize and destroy their growing jihadist cancer they must be held responsible." But that's all and he's just one guy anyway.

So despite your continuing insults all you have is made up data from a place with an agenda that has been discredited and so far no examples of the "demanding all muslims apologise" at all.